Wednesday, July 13, 2016

Third Party Delusion

For years, Conservatives have lamented the daft Perot voters that handed Bill Clinton the Presidency.

But, here we are.


Johnson can NEVER win, and we all know this.

What he can do is take 11% from ensuring we will never have another Clinton presidency.

We are mocking the Libs for going from anti-Wall Street Sanders to Two Million from Wall Street in two years Clinton --and many of us are planning on suspending common sense in the same manner. How can voting third party possibly assuage your conscience when you know with 100% historical certainly that a 3rd party candidate takes from the Republican and all but ensure a Hillary win?

And some of you that are so pro-life... #scotusappointmentsareforlife

Let's not parse realities. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary. At least have the honesty to own it.

#neverhillary

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

It's hopeless, ALa.
Children in adult bodies cannot be reasoned with. They get in a snit over some ideological impurity or frivolous defect, and then sit in the corner and pout. Of course by doing so they throw away their own agenda altogether.
I remember one who argued that by not supporting the "Rinos", the left would win and make everything so much worse that the voters would react by electing true believers the next round.
After the economic damage had been made permanent. After the courts had been packed. After we were overrun by third world paupers. After making the next war (that their policies made unavoidable) much more difficult to fight.

CrabbyOldMan said...

I am Anonymous above

Bram said...

"A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary." Unless you were actually going to vote for Hillary. I think he'll draw pretty evenly from both and end up maybe 5% of the vote.

Nate said...

A lot of the Johnson voters I've seen posting on facebook are likely Clinton voters without the third party option. I personally can't consider voting for a third party until they start winning elections at the local and state level. When they start winning more elections, they can graduate from attention seekers to legitimate political party. That being said, I certainly understand it particularly from the Republican perspective. Trump's demagoguery, populism and strong man tactics should scare us all.


CrabbyOld Man said...

Demagoguery? I see no difference between Trump and the others that were in the race, PARTICULARLY the Democrats.

Populism? Look at the Democrat talking points. Trump is much milder.

"Strong Man" tactics? WHAT tactics? Have you been watching Trumps detractors?

What I see about Trump that infuriates his adult detractors is his calling a spade a spade. I say that "Incompetent" and "stupid" and "corrupt" are accurate. I agree that a clique of the anointed do in fact run things for their own benefit. Has anyone ever heard of the teacher's unions? The legal profession and its' playground and money tree, the court system?

The children don't like him because he is a meanie who(like Newt) dishes it right back to those who deserve it. Megan Kelly, who I actually like comes to mind.

Zelda said...

I don't know that Johnson doesn't hurt Hillary more this time around. He's making a pretty strong play for Bernie voters, which he should. I have to hope that Bernie voters are more anti-corruption than socialist especially after all their preening and virtue signaling.

Nate said...

LOM,

You agree with Trump's prejudice and bigotry and therefore it makes sense that he doesn't seem like a demagogue to you. He tells you what you want to hear. The fact that you consider his comments "calling a spade a spade" is that he is confirming your prejudice and bigotry. This is the definition of a demagogue.

Attacking the judiciary (for ethnicity, that's a twofer), suggesting policies that are the antithesis of the constitution (discriminate against particular religion), and calling himself the "law and order" candidate in the aftermath of what sounds like a policeman straight up murdering a man for following his instructions all seem like strong man and fascist tendencies. Is refusing to disclose tax returns a precursor to refusing to put his assets in a blind trust? Do you see him turning over his business "empire" to a blind trust?

Bram said...

That's the Leftist way of debating - act like the worst accusation against an opponent is a proven fact and proceed from there. No need to actually prove it, just spread manure like an Alabama pig farmer then dance around in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaKUo5naoY

Haverwilde said...

Nate, if calling a racist 'a racist' is demagoguery than I guess Trump is one, just like you!

"Calling a spade a spade' is another way of saying "telling the truth" and it is no wonder you would hate anyone who will tell the truth. It is not 'Racist' to tell the truth unless you are a liberal asshole who only sees thing as either 'liberal' or 'racist.'

Fascism is usually the next step in socialism in which the State, the Media, and Big Business, coordinate to militarize the arms of government, use government to intimidate or destroy opposition, and to regulate all activities. In other words, we are watching the creation of a fascist state under Obama. If anything, Trump is antithetical fascism.

This election gives us three choices: continue the creation of Fascist America under Clinton; Elect Trump and hope for the best; or vote for someone else.

Nate said...

Bram,

Trump's true feelings towards minorities aren't frankly relevant to to his resume as a demagogue. His campaign rhetoric uses prejudices and bigotry to stir up hatred, fear and voter sentiment for himself. Nice try though.

LOM,

Is the judge a racist? Care to support that assertion? Not sure where you are getting this from. Wasn't he a dubya appointee? What fundamental truths has Trump told? That Mexicans are rapists and incapable of being judges? That Muslims are so dangerous that they shouldn't be allowed to come to this country? You are the one unable to distinguish between stereotype and truth.

The evidence does not support the assertion that an economic system leads to a particular form of government. Likewise, it has been the Republicans to prosecute the war on drugs which has resulted in some of the highest incarceration rates on the planet. Trump declared himself the law and order candidate which makes him the leading candidate for fascist dictator.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Who the hell is "LOM"?

Nate said...

Leaching old man, aka you. Remember, you are taking government handouts every month, leaching money from hardworking Americans like myself.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Nit:
I assume you are referring to Social Security.
I have pointed out before that those in that system had no choice but to be there. Federal law required that we participate. Furthermore I showed everyone that the return on mine and my employers "contributions" was horseshit. We all would have been several times better off taking the DOW returns even with the fluctuations.
I am sure that there are many here who still remember that post.
You always were and always will be a nitwit.

Bram and Havirwilde:
Nit posts the asinine things he does because he (and the other hammerheads) have no arguments that anyone buys,and, well, he thinks he has to say SOMETHING. Nitwits think that they are the smartest one in the room. I don't think he realizes he is making a fool of himself.

Tater said...

Dunno COM, I kinda like hearing Nate's views. As a #neverTrump kind of guy, Nate's muddled ramblings gives me pause; which is worse, putting up with an asshole like Trump or a sea of MORONS like Nate??? Wish I had a better choice, but Nate does make Trump look like a POLISHED turd vs just a turd! Ya gotta admit, that's an improvement for Trump!!

Later

Haverwilde said...

I suspect that a lot of folks are going to take another look at Trump's proposal to stop most Moslem immigration until adequate safeguards are in place. The Bastille Day massacre should wake up a few voters and add a point or two to Trump's popularity. Sad day for France.

Robert I. Eachus said...

Don't make the mistake of assuming that a Presidential election is a popularity contest. All 50 states, plus the District of Columbia elect Electors. If no candidate gets a majority of Electors, the new President is chosen by the (new) House of Representatives, with each state getting one vote.

What matters here are the 51 separate elections. (Per state) polls will give you an idea of the effect of your vote. If your state is solidly behind Hillary, it doesn't matter who you vote for. If your state (I'm thinking of Alaska) is such that Hillary will be struggling to finish in third? Then a vote for Johnson may be seen as a vote to send the election to the House. I live in New Hampshire, and once upon a time, that would have been true here as well. However too many Democrats have moved here from Massachusetts to avoid the taxes. (They then complain about the lack of some services, but I digress.)

Nate said...

LOM,

Just like everyone pays taxes to support every other social program that we receive benefits from. The point I'm making is that you are no different from every other person that takes a government check, only that you are hypocritical enough to take the check and want to lower the benefits for younger people. Your return may not have been great -- but it could have been if you were poor or were unable to work due to injury or illness.

As you continue to attack me rather than my arguments, you are furthering the view that I am the smartest or at least the most informed person in the room. I'm sure even this group can understand that singling out one religious group for scrutiny conflicts with free exercise of religion.

I'm personally of the opinion that in the rather unlikely case that Trump wins the presidency, he'll choose to never take office because of all of the red tape that comes with it.

Zelda said...

Nate, after all these years, seriously? How's your wife? Kids? They must be at least in kindy by now.

And say what you will about Trump (and I'm not voting for him) recent events only highlight the failures of Democrats to protect the country. If you don't want a racist elected, Democrats have to start taking terrorism seriously and quit idiotically pretending that it's some form of justice.

CrabbyOldMan said...

RE: "Just like everyone pays taxes to support every other social program that we receive benefits from."
FDR and his cronies would have absolutely freaked at that comment.
RE: "...you are furthering the view that I am the smartest or at least the most informed person in the room."
It will be interesting to see if there is anyone who agrees with you.

rbb said...

Hey gang, what's more super better good gop times, that your new gop veep mon thinks your new gop pres nom's ideas are "offensive and unconstitutional" or that your new gop pres nom wanted to dump his new gop veep nom?

Just in case you don't have a clue about what's going on, and I'm sure you don't, here's your new veep nom's tweet about your new gop pres nom's anti American ideas:

***Governor Mike Pence✔@GovPenceIN

Calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional.

7:30 AM - 8 Dec 2015****

Ass hats are driving your clown cars.

rbb said...

Looks like your 3 traditional marriage goofball anti American, Newtie, is riding shotgun in your clown car as he called for the abandonment of our 1rst Amendment so he could deport American Mooslums he doesn't like until he called his idea to deport Mooslums he doesn't like the abandonment of our 1rst Amendment.

Ass hats are driving your clown car.

Zelda said...

Shut up, Hillary chump. Unless you're voting for Johnson, you sound like a moron.

rbb said...

I'm sorry your beloved gop has fallen apart, Z, but that's to be expected since ass hats are driving your clown car.

Say, did you read where your gop pres nom demanded, and received, 10 years of tax returns from his vice nom but hasn't released his own?
Why hasn't your party's nom released his own?

If you guess, 'hiding something', you're today's winner!

Trump demanded VP candidate tax docs he won't make public

..."They wanted all my taxes back until 2004," Gingrich said. "That was a mound, just a whole stack of tax material."
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article89936047.html

Zelda said...

Did you read where Hillary didn't disclose all the money she received from foreign governments to the Clinton Foundation? Unification of your party only means you're unified frauds. Sorry your party is united around a scumbag. Sorry she emasculated Bernie and humiliated his supporters.

rbb said...

Had she done something wrong, your gop, which has spent tens of millions of tax payer's dollars to uncover something, anything, would have it front and center.

Meanwhile, you gop nom:

Trump campaign solicits illegal foreign donations despite warnings

Donald Trump's campaign is still soliciting illegal donations from foreign individuals - including members of foreign governments at their official email addresses - weeks after the campaign was put on notice by watchdog groups.

Foreign members of parliament from the United Kingdom and Australia confirmed to The Hill that they received fundraising solicitations from the Trump campaign as recently as July 12 - two weeks after a widely publicized FEC complaint...


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-campaign-solicits-illegal-foreign-donations-despite-warnings/ar-BBup9LR

Asshats are driving your clown car.

Zelda said...

She committed multiple felonies. Anyone who has ever had security clearance knows it. Not being prosecuted isn't the same as being innocent. But your mind is hers. You will worship her until you die. It's your fate.

CrabbyOldMan said...


Zelda nailed it.
I add that there aren’t very many people who doubt Hitler ordered the Holocaust.
Yet, hard as has been tried, nobody has been able to produce anything with Adolf's signature on it, or anything else that would meet the U.S. criteria for criminal evidence. By the standards the dumbocrats apply to Hillary's shenanigans, Hitler must have been innocent too.

Nate said...

Hi Zelda,

Wife is 8 months pregnant and hating summer in Virginia. Otherwise having an uneventful pregnancy (the best kind!). My oldest is going to kindergarten in September and his sister is turning three in a few months. Quit my day job and started working for my company full time two years ago. We've had ups and downs, but otherwise life is good. Thanks for asking! Hope everything is going well for you.

Obama did screw up in Syria and failed to take ISIS to seriously until too late. That being said, military victories against ISIS has seemed to correlate with more terrorist attacks in foreign countries. There is some evidence this is a causal relationship and not necessarily a coincidence. I think the solution to the homegrown terrorists is to ensure that at risk youth has not only an open door, but available resources to help them feel American. We'll always have disaffected people, and some of them will resort of violence, but this will at least minimize it. I've not seen any other suggested solutions that are consistent with American values. Folks like Trump exacerbate the problem by encouraging islamaphobia.

Zelda said...

Congratulations on the third! And your wife has my utmost sympathy. My third is 4 already which blows my mind. And congratulations on your business. It's always a struggle, but there is something liberating about going out on your own. Our best year was last year and we're on track to beat it this year so things are wonderful.

As for ISIS, Obama did screw up. It's because he never really knew what he was doing. He delegates all responsibility and doesn't meet with his own appointees. He never really seems to understand what is going on. This is his biggest leadership failing.

And when you say "military victories" I don't really know what you mean. If you mean military attacks, I agree. The terrorist attacks are reprisals for the West's half-hearted attempts to pretend they care that hundreds of their citizens were murdered in cold blood by people who never should have been in their countries in the first place.

And I don't think there is a solution to homegrown terrorism. Look at the Boston marathon murderers. They had everything the state could give them. Free housing, free education, friends, even girlfriends. But something is missing from our culture that the government can't provide.

I think you misunderstand when you think that at risk youth want to feel American (or European). I think you are mistaken when you assume they have low self-esteem. I think they like themselves just fine, have no problem taking advantage of whatever their host countries offer them, and ultimately want us to become like them instead of the other way around. The rapes in Germany and Scandinavia weren't committed by loners and outcasts. They were committed by men who felt perfectly entitled by virtue of their cultural mores and the special treatment they'd been given by their host countries.

Trump is abhorrent to me in may ways, but this is his strong point. A thousand people could have been more diplomatic, but there is nothing that goes against American values by refusing to import people with such strongly illiberal cultural differences, especially when some of them want to actually kill us. We didn't accept German or Japanese refugees during WWII with good reason.

CrabbyOldMan said...

MIRICLE
"Obama did screw up in Syria and failed to take ISIS to seriously until too late."

BREATHTAKING
"I think the solution to the homegrown terrorists is to ensure that at risk youth has not only an open door, but available resources to help them feel American. We'll always have disaffected people, and some of them will resort of violence, but this will at least minimize it. I've not seen any other suggested solutions that are consistent with American values. Folks like Trump exacerbate the problem by encouraging islamaphobia."

Jay Jankovich said...

Its not a phobia when the fear is justified. Syrians have been killing Americans for generations now.

But as for Trump, for the third election cycle now I will be staying home. At what point in 12 years without being even able to hold my nose do I just discover Im not a Republican? Probably this time.

Clinton and Trump both are horrible but what is worse are the legions of Americans who gave us these clowns. I have come to terms with the reality that we get the government we deserve, and its not our politicians or the "1%" who are causing these woes, but the American people inflicting them upon themselves. You can replace a politician but not the population. Therefore we are well and truely fucked. We have failed our heroic ancestors. It is now irreversible. Damage is done. Escape impossible. So this November instead of wasting my time at the polls Im going to have a nice scotch, avoid hearing about Kanye and Kim, and enjoy the decline.

Jay Jankovich said...

Its not a phobia when the fear is justified. Syrians have been killing Americans for generations now.

But as for Trump, for the third election cycle now I will be staying home. At what point in 12 years without being even able to hold my nose do I just discover Im not a Republican? Probably this time.

Clinton and Trump both are horrible but what is worse are the legions of Americans who gave us these clowns. I have come to terms with the reality that we get the government we deserve, and its not our politicians or the "1%" who are causing these woes, but the American people inflicting them upon themselves. You can replace a politician but not the population. Therefore we are well and truely fucked. We have failed our heroic ancestors. It is now irreversible. Damage is done. Escape impossible. So this November instead of wasting my time at the polls Im going to have a nice scotch, avoid hearing about Kanye and Kim, and enjoy the decline.

Tater said...

"You can replace a politician but not the population."

Mexico seems to be doing a good job for us right now...

Later

rbb said...

Wasn't it a lovely gesture the great white dope's pretty 3rd wife's speechwriter did by plagiarizing our First Lady's speech?

Yep, the great white dope will hire the best people.

In related news, the great white dope's campaign manager said: "We feel that the American people don't know all of Donald Trump".

I guess that means the great white dope will be releasing his tax returns soon!

Asshats are driving the gop clown car.

rbb said...

When they were screaming "lock her up" during CC's talk, did they get the pronoun wrong, because it was CC's appointee who actually plead guilty.

***Christie's Mentor Pleads Guilty and Ex-Cabinet Member Charged With Conspiracy in 'Chairman's Flight' Scheme

One of New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie's closest friends and long-time mentors pleaded guilty in federal court Thursday in connection with a sprawling scandal that has engulfed the Christie Administration.

David Samson, 76, Christie’s former appointee as chairman of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, was charged with one felony count of bribery for demanding United Airlines executives create a special flight route to his vacation home in exchange for favorable treatment from the agency, which operates Newark Liberty International Airport.*** http://www.wnyc.org/story/mentor-christie-appear-federal-court/

CrabbyOldMan said...

Please help me Reliably Blathers Bilge:
Just what office is Christie running for?

Nate said...

Zelda,

ISIS has lost most of the territory it controls and financially has suffered due to military attacks that limited their ability to sell oil. I view this as a military victory.

But something is missing from our culture that the government can't provide.

While I agree that our culture is pretty violent, this killings aren't just happening in the U.S. They've occurred pretty much everywhere in the world regardless of culture.

The fact that we didn't take Jewish refugees regardless of nationality was horrific in the WWII era. We condemned them to getting massacred by the Nazis. I also consider the internment camps that were created for the Japanese and Germans inhumane and unnecessary. I'd like to learn from our mistakes and avoid repeating injustice against those that have suffered horrendously at the hands of ISIS.

There are roughly 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and I'd like to avoid fighting as many as possible. Islamophobia will only make it an "us vs them" scenario.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Nit:
Just inflicting casualties is not military victory. Destroying the enemy's ability to wage war is victory.
Big difference between the 1930-40s Jews and the Muslims. Many Muslims, and we aren't able to accurately say which ones, are killors while the Jews were killees.
The camps for Germans could not have been inhumane and unnecessary, because there weren't any.
Everyone would like to avoid fighting as many Muslims as possible, but we need to have the capability to fight as many as may be necessary.