Monday, December 17, 2012

Guest Post by Nate

While I've not ever cared much about gun control, the latest tragedy has me thinking about the issue in a different light. Much like Islam being the choice of most religious terrorists, guns seem to be the weapons of choice for lunatic mass murderers. Automatic weapons enable any reasonably motivated to murder dozens of innocents. It is just too simple, too easy, and too convenient. The argument that guns are just a tool used to resonate, but you never see mass casualties with the other weapons of violence. My conclusion is that guns are particularly suited to these lunatics, and enables truly effective murders on their rampages. No other commonly available weapon fits the bill. Much like we all agree that that WMDs should be kept out of the hands of religious extremism, I think we all can agree that semi-automatic weapons should be kept out of the hands of monsters.

Newtown gunman had hundreds of bullets, police said

This could have been much worse. This guy was better armed than the police, and may have been better trained. Had he shot it out, we'd likely be mourning one or more police officers and a larger death toll. My motivation to defend the right to own these weapons has disappeared.

87 comments:

free0352 said...

The argument that guns are just a tool used to resonate, but you never see mass casualties with the other weapons of violence.

Oklahoma city, 9-11, Bath bombing not ringing a bell for you?

As for being better armed than the police thats a crock. Cops have fucking grenade launchers, sniper rifles, you name it.

But on the whole, I don't care if you like it.

Its a right. And you can't have it. If I have to put up with abortion killing a million babies a year because of the Constitution, you're fucked.

ALa said...

Nate, I get it and I've had the same misgivings after horrific events like this. But, in calmer moments I come back to the fact that blaming the gun is (once again) not dealing with the real issue. That we, as a country, have become to politically correct to deal with most of the issues that plague us. We refuse to label. We refuse to deal with mental illness in a meaningful manner. We pretend that soaring divorce rates don't mean anything. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Of all the articles I've read since this unthinkable tragedy happened, this is BY FAR the best:

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

Anonymous said...

I drop a comment when I especially enjoy a article
on a blog or I have something to contribute to the conversation.
It is triggered by the sincerness displayed in the article I looked at.
And on this article "Guest Post by Nate". I was actually excited enough to drop
a thought ;) I actually do have a couple of questions
for you if you usually do not mind. Could it be simply me
or does it look as if like some of these comments appear like coming from brain dead folks?
:-P And, if you are posting on additional online social sites, I'd like to keep up with you. Could you list all of all your social sites like your Facebook page, twitter feed, or linkedin profile?
Stop by my blog :: how to get rid of static cling

Ditch Digger said...

The gun control crowd thinks that if we just had one more law we could prevent this type of tragedy. I offer that mass murder is against the law and punishable by the death penalty in many places. That law did not stop this. Guns (weapons) in schools are against the law. That law did not stop this. He broke a whole host of laws to perpetrate this mass murder. No additional legislation would have stopped this crazy murder. We should not allow our government to impose another knee jerk piece of legislation that does not solve the problem. This crime demonstrates that our government is incompetent. When we entrust our safety and well being to the government, this is the result.

Nate said...

Ala,

I read that post too -- just remember that it isn't political correctness that put that mother in the position she was in. It was lack of mental health facilities, lack of quality insurance, and lack of support. The mother laments that the only way to get support for her child is for him to commit a crime. Do you think that it is appropriate that only children of parents that have private group health insurance get the help that we all need them to get?

Both of my parents are government employees -- my Dad is a federal attorney, and my mother is a school psychologist. My Dad talks about how many drug cases are users that want to kick the habit, but have failed to do so on their own and are looking for the support and structure that prison provides. Pretty sad, and very expensive.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Nate:
Apparently you have never heard of bombs and poison.
I point out that back in the day when we did not have mass murders in schools, we did not have the government programs you bleat about either. What we did have were loony bins in which we locked the loonies up.
Your mothers profession is not noted for its' results. Rather, it is noted for consuming still more public resources.
I'm sure that there must be lots of druggies, that, when caught, say they have no desire at all to quit.
By the way, are your parents going to be stuck with Obama care or do they have a separate program for government employees?

Zelda said...

This may be the herd reaction, but since when has prohibition ever been effective? Look at the war on drugs. How's that going?

These men kill because their mental illness is malignant narcissism and they can't stand it that they don't have the respect they think they deserve just for existing. So rather than blowing their own brains out like a an ordinary loser, they decide to go out a Dark Hero. And we feed their egos with our tears. They laugh at us scrambling to disarm ourselves because that's not going to stop them. Our most effective weapon is our indifference, not our proactivity.

All this mourning, while perfectly understandable, just feeds the beast and makes it that much more gratifying for the next psycho.

Sometimes I think we had the wrong collective reaction to 9/11. Instead of showing how much they hurt us, we should have shown contempt. Because it is contemptible to kill those who are innocent and defenseless. So instead of portraying the killers as scary monsters, we have to start portraying them as pathetic, diseased losers.

Nate said...

Sure COM, but pretending that we are still in the '50s doesn't make it so, no matter how hard you clench your eyes.

The United States has a larger percentage of its population in prison now than ever in history, and the highest incarceration rate in the entire world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

Seems like we are doing a damn fine job of locking them up. In fact we are the only country in the world with 700+ people incarcerated per 100k people, and have 5x the incarceration rate of China. It doesn't seem to be preventing mass murders. Land of the Free, eh?

Bram said...

I'm real tired of the statist dancing in the blood. He'll use any tragedy as an excuse to destroy my rights.

I avoided the news as much as possible, but I can name 4 laws the shooter broke before he entered the school. More unenforceable laws aren't going to do anything.

Attempting to sieze every gun in the U.S. is the fastest way I can think of to start the next Civil War.

Talking about how we treat the dangerously mentally ill - that one is tough and doesn't score big political points.

Zelda said...

Nate, you aren't making any sense. You are upset about prisons being too full, yet you want to make more laws criminalizing more things. We make ourselves sitting ducks for psychopaths by disarming. They choose gun free zones because they don't want to make some gun-owning citizen the hero of the story. Crabby has a point. If you want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, they have to be locked up. And btw, it wasn't conservatives who shut down the mental institutions, it was the ACLU.

Rickvid in Seattle said...

The easiest thing to do is to massively retaliate against the totally innocent. Gun free zones – their histories are drenched in blood. From this atrocity – I hate the word “tragedy” applied to this sort of thing – to the Racer Café shooting in my area, the only options left to these innocents, by law, were to run, hide, and die. The heroic principal of the school rushed the shooter and was shot dead. So did the school psychologist. One teacher put herself between her kids and the shooter and she died. The kids cowered in their rooms and died. They all died by law. Gun control laws, in large measure, aid the lawless. Had one law-abiding person, just one, broken the law and kept a gun in any of these situations, the results would have been different. You see the conundrum. The law-abiding follow the idiot laws, while the evil do not. Perhaps it is time for the law-abiding to break some laws.

Anonymous said...

Let's face it, Nate, this guy did not have an automatic weapon. Very few people do have them. He did not have an assault weapon, he had a rifle that looked like an assault weapon.

He violated 41 laws in this case, and none of them stopped him. Banning automatic weapons would not have stopped him. Only mental health aid, which his mother did not provide, would have helped, if only temporarily.

There was free aid available, they did not use it. The ACLU saw to it that mandatory treatment was no longer an option, and this is what we get.

Fearthuinn min an Saille said...

Yeah, last I checked, gun control worked in this case....it led him to take his mother's guns, while killing her in the process. He premeditated this. It wasn't something he decided to do after waking up on Friday morning. He planned this for several days, but the waiting period and the background check requirement made him walk away. So he went to a place with familiar weapons and took them - his mother's house.

And the left morons can't even decide on what an assault weapon is. According to them, my single shot shot gun is an assault weapon, because it has features. That's like calling a smart car a sports car because it has spoilers, 2 doors, and a red paint job.

Anonymous said...

WTF is an "assault" weapon? It's a semi-automatic deer rifle that is made to look like a military machine gun...usually an AK-47. This "assualt" weapon bullshit is all hype.

Jpck20 said...

We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I blame all of the recent mass shootings on the left because of this. That's right Nate. It's your fault. It's Jims fault. It's the rest of you idiotic Libs fault.

Because we can't lock up loony fucking nutjobs like this. Because we can't even mention that someone is bat-shit crazy or that he seems like a shady mother fucker and he needs to be watched without incurring the wrath of you pussy ass bleeding-heart libs.

Oh no! You cant say that about the poor child! He's just misunderstood! He has a 'disability' and we dont dare treat him different!

Fucking complete horseshit.

Those 26 dead?

Your fault bitches.

Shawna said...

"The argument that guns are just a tool used to resonate, but you never see mass casualties with the other weapons of violence."

You're not familiar with the school stabbings in China? Another one just happened again last week. Google it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html

Nate said...

Let's face it, Nate, this guy did not have an automatic weapon. Very few people do have them. He did not have an assault weapon, he had a rifle that looked like an assault weapon.

He managed to shoot a child 11 times, murder multiple adults that died trying to stop this fucker. He forced his way past security. Think that would have happened with a fucking knife? Murder with a gun is just too goddamn easy.

Let me pose the question. What should be done to make sure this doesn't happen again?

Nate said...

Your mothers profession is not noted for its' results. Rather, it is noted for consuming still more public resources.

Legislatures and school boards drive my mother's profession, not her.

There are plenty of success stories, though I'm sure you don't hear about them. This School Psychologist and Principal that died trying to save the students certainly paints a different picture of public servants.

I have a coworker that was dyslexic, and didn't learn how to read until 12. Her teacher told her that she'd never graduate high school. With help, she was able to excel, and is currently pursuing advanced degrees while a successful professional in her own right.

Regardless School Psychologists are primarily tasked with testing students for learning disabilities, and working with teachers to identify strategies to avoid putting students in special ed. Not a thankful job.

Jpck20 said...

He could have driven his car through the front door Nate.

If a sick fuck wants to do evil, he will find a way. Just ask the Jihadis who brainwash kids into wearing suicide vests.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Jpck20 said...

The scary part is there are a lot more of them out there.

Again, it's the libs fault.

When you read the article ala linked about the mom who realized she had a huge problem on her hands with her autistic kid. She basicall admits she has the potential next hitler on her hands and gets him put away.

At the bottom of the article, the person who re-posted writes 'one of her children has 'special needs''.

SPECIAL NEEDS? She just fucking admitted she had the next mass shooter on her hands for fucks sake. And we still want to say 'special needs'?

THATS the fucking problem Nate. You and your pussy fuck Libs have turned this country into turning a blind eye and labeling crazed lunatic kids as 'special needs'.

Well isnt that special?

You want to know what we can do to stop it?

Call a fucking spade a fucking spade.

Stop being such goddam pussies about people who are fucked up.

Kid says he wants to kill himself, his mom or his siblings? Lock that fucker up for life and throw away the goddam key. Do it. Now.

THATS how you stop it.

Mark said...

I work at a high school in a predominately rural area. I'm pretty sure most of these kids have access to guns at home.

On top of that, we've been seeing migration from Chicago in recent years (we're in northwest Indiana), and we've seen an increase in gang-related activities here at the high school AND at the middle schools that feed us.

We have a policeman here every day on campus, and he's always packing heat and a taser.

Many times I have imagined what would happen here if a nutcase student came in with a gun, and I always come up with the same answer: I'd much rather face that situation armed than unarmed. If there were even a chance that I could stop some jerkhole shooting up a place, why wouldn't I want that? Thing is, because it's a school, I don't even get that choice. I'm always unarmed.

(How does this story change if a teacher surreptitiously kept a gun at school and took out the murderer before he did any or more damage? "Teacher locked up for having a gun at school, killing teenager; libs want his head on a platter")

There isn't an easy answer to the whole debate except when there is: unarmed populations will ALWAYS be at the mercy of armed nutjobs.

BigD said...

I'm once again saddened by the deaths of heroes who were forced to throw themselves, unarmed, at armed intruders in an attempt to save their students. If there had been 3 or 4 trained and armed adults in the school, the body count would have been much lower. I despise the idiots that have turned schools into gun free zones just to satisfy their emotions.

Rickvid in Seattle said...

List on mass shootings in "gun free zones" since Columbine. Hmmm, not many other places mass shootings have occured, as I recall.

http://www.redwhine.org/mass-shootings-in-us-since-columbinewhy/

Jpck20 said...

Gun Free = easy prey.

The fact someone was able to call 911 when it started, not sure if that person made it out alive or not, and the police response time was probably about as fast as is humanly possible, prevented an even greater massacre.

Of course, where did that come from? As a result of Columbine.

Unfortunately for us, Tragedy changes SOP.

While I wouldn't trust most people with a gun, much less some 25 year old whisp of a 1st grade teacher, every school should have a select few who are trained and armed at all times.

I would be willing to put my tax dollars towards that versus paying for pieces of shit to lay on the couch all day long.

Anonymous said...

I blame the 2000+ right wing talk radio stations that talk daily about hating Obama (record gun sales in NOvember), hating the government and hating public schoolteachers, they spew hatred 24 hrs. a day. Gun owners whine about their "rights"?!? What about my rights? The right to walk into a mall or movie and not be gunned down, or to not be afraid to send my 5 yr. old to school. Most NRA members are not against gun control...who hunts with a semi-automatic?

Anonymous said...

Have there been any mass school shootings in NYC? Gun control.

Jpck20 said...

Anonymous, please tell me you don't have kids. I sure hope not. Because if you do, I'm sure you bred your fucking stupidity into them.

The reason NYC hasn't had a mass shooting is because of the MILLIONS of fucking dollars it spends on school security you completely stupid fuck. Which includes metal detectors and school police. Jesus are you libs really this goddamn ignorant? I mean please tell me this is a troll post and that you all arent this fucking stupid.

It's people like you who should be segragated from society for your goddam ignorance.

And oh, guess who is complaining about the measures being taken to keep NYC kids safe? The Goddamn ACLU!!!

That's right you foolish fuck, your precious ACLU wants to make schools LESS SAFE!!!!

Fuck Off.

Bram said...

Anonymous - A few guys with box cutters in killed 4,000 people in NYC.

There was a well-planned broad daylight street murder in NYC last week.

free0352 said...

Murder with a gun is just too goddamn easy.

Actually when someone is shooting back its quite difficult. I know this from experience.

You can't rubber coat the world, but that won't stop liberals from trying. 1 out of 7 female college students will be raped this year. That is a fact. Guess what the rape rate for armed women is? Close to zero. Anyway, Nate and the gun grabbers of the world would render those women defenseless as those college girls are on the gun free campus. Bottom line. Criminals will get weapons. They'll attack in numbers, when you least expect it. A woman facing down 3 rapists with knives has no hope. A woman with a handgun facing down 3 morons who brought a knife to a gun fight has a good chance.

But not in Nate's dream utopia.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Enemas:
The NRA people fiercely oppose gun control laws, but virtually all very strongly support locking up anyone using a gun to commit a crime (unlike you leftards), and just as strongly support those criminals forfeiting their gun rights.
Your chances of being gunned down at the mall, or your kid in school, are lower than the chance of you suffering death or injury driving to either one. We have the same principle as with airline crashes. Those crashes are very dramatic and involve lots of victims, but there are far, far fewer victims of airplane accidents than car accidents.
You leftards just CANNOT think.

Nate:
Why would we not imitate the successful 1950s social policies rather than continue with the liberal policies that superseded the earlier ones and have failed so miserably?
Not that any of the loony’s victims would care, but a loony bin and a prison, while having some similarities, are not the same thing.
By the way, when are you going to answer my question about you and your civil servant parents being subject to Obama care?

free0352 said...

Forcing people into medical treatment is firstly unconstitutional. Being crazy isn't a crime.

Second, what makes you think that will work? Criminally insane people don't do these things. Really. Its easy to think, "Who would do this? They must be crazy."

They aren't crazy. They are evil. There is a very huge difference between crazy and evil. I may not believe in God but I damn sure believe in evil. Unlike evidence of God, the evidence of evil is on display night and day. And most of the time its not because someone is sick, its because someone is a wolf in human disguise preying on people.

The best treatment for that condition is a lead overdose at 2000 FPS, administered once the evil act rears its head.

Hoss said...

Nate, by all accounts Lanza's mother was financially capable of getting psychological help for her son, she evidently chose not to or prioritized other things. we have to quit bullshitting that you have to have insurance for everything, or you just can't have that service. Yes, insurance makes it easier, but if either one of my kids needed anything -anything - medical or psychological, they'd get it and I'd figure out one way or another to pay for it. I wouldn't sit around on my ass waiting for someone else to pony up or shirk my responsibilities as a parent by denying them their treatment.

Declan (11) gets his Ruger 10/.22 for Christmas this year. I've already got my eye on a Walther .380 (pink urban cammo) for the Princess when she gets a little older.

Anonymous said...

Most mass murderers are self identified Democrats...Let's just ban guns for Democrats. Problem solved.

free0352 said...

The biggest problem with Democrats is they just can't get criminal justice right. They want to free cop killer Mumia and punish law abiding citizens with gun bans for the crimes of actual criminals. They will justify horrific crimes like those committed by Bill Ayers but claim anyone who owns a fire arm for self defense is a paranoid, crazy person.

Democrats when it comes to criminal justice are completely insane. They arm drug cartels in Mexico while they work to disarm American Citizens. Nuff said about them there.

Anonymous said...

OK, Nate, if he hadn't had a gun, he'd have made a bomb. He would have killed more people. If he had a knife, he'd have easily killed 20 or more, since no one at the school would have been equipped to stop him.

The problem isn't the weapon. In Israel, everyone is armed, including with automatic weapons, and there aren't incidents like this. In Switzerland, every male citizen is armed, and there are no incidents like this.

Roboto said...

Democrats when it comes to criminal justice are completely insane.

No need to limit it to criminal justice, free. I can't name one area where they AREN'T insane.
Foreign policy... capitulate.
Economic policy... reward bad behavior, punish good behavior.
Crime... coddle criminals, blame the innocent.
Democratic Presidential administrations... blame the former admin (if it was a Republican)
Republican Presidential administrations... responsible for everything (but only if it is bad).

These people make Charles Manson look well adjusted.

Freemom said...

So much to say...what DO you do to make sure this never happens again? You realize you will never be able to identify and predict the perpetrator...so analyze the targets instead and take appropriate action, including armed guards. And Mexico has really strict gun laws...REALLY strict..how is that working out for Jose Six Pack? Not so good. They are subject to slaughter daily...as are those ranchers who live on our borders. WAKE UP.

Anonymous said...

Nate - When you decide to be wrong you take out all the stops don't you?
Men will be protecting you and yours with guns every day of your sad sad life and many of those men will be women.
A girl like you wouldn't understand that.

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RonF said...

"Automatic weapons enable any reasonably motivated to murder dozens of innocents."

Automatic weapons were not used in the commission of this crime. Love ya, but please know what you're talking about when you talk about guns.

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