Tuesday, December 04, 2012

Better Safe Than in Denial...

So, speaking of living in an urban area that's teaming with diversity, drugs, alcoholism, prostitution and all other kinds of lucrative and diabolical temptations...

What do you think of drug testing your teen(s)?

I am a fan.

Someone recently accused me a being a hypocrite because I embrace a very limited government ideology, yet "violate" my teen's privacy by randomly forcing him to pee in a cup. I wish I could have accused them of being a dolt, since it's not the government testing my child...it's me...the parent.

Drugs are rampant in his school. Many of the parents in the neighborhood are in serious denial, but addiction has been a multi-generational issue in The Man's family and who truly knows the Nature/Nurture split.

It does suck I feel the need when he is barely 14. But, this is the reality of where we live. Four test and four negatives. So I'm incredibly thankful for that. Yet, hesitantly thankful as he is only 14 (though 14 going on 25). But I feel it gives him an out:
"Hey J, wanna hit this green?"
"Nah dude, my parents are total nut jobs that test my shit."
Well, that's how I imagine it going down anyway...

I know there are some people against it. Something about Parent/Teen trust and bonding. Then again, some people believe everyone gets a trophy and winning doesn't count and that "use your words" is a productive phrase.

I WISH there would have been OTC drug tests when I was a teen --I would have gladly peed in a cup a few times a year for a bit more leeway. I say the negative result is what builds the trust.

Do I like doing it? No way, I'm scared to death each time it'll be positive and I will no longer be able to wallow in denial. So far, so good.

50 comments:

Bram said...

I've have mixed feelings about it in public school.

In our kids' parochial school, they have testing (a condition of attending the school) and I'm fine with it.

Jpck20 said...

You might want to think about moving from that shithole of a city you live in. Just sayin...

careaga - the other one said...

@Jpck20 - living in a 'shithole city' has nothing (well, not MUCH) to do with it. I grew up in the burbs and there was rampant dope use...and there is to this very day.
What counts is her kid is strong enough to withstand the peer pressure and/or stay away from the kids that present the peer pressure.
Its just as easy to say "no" in the city as it is in the sticks.

T. Paine said...

Good for you, Ala! In the long run, your son will definitely appreciate the fact that you gave enough of a damn about him to keep him on the straight and narrow.

I have NEVER in my life seen ANYTHING good come out of drug use. I sure as hell have seen a lot of bad things come out of it though. Some that was very bad.

Keep doing what your doing, Mama Bear! Wish more parents would follow your lead.

jim marquis said...

I like your idea of giving him an out. Peer pressure is such a huge part of people getting into drugs.

I think (like the majority of folks here in Washington) pot should be legal but still recognize it's something that teenagers aren't truly equipped to deal with.

CrabbyOldMan said...

I think that T. Paine has summed it up very well.
Malarky, do you have any argument for legalising pot besides "lots of nice people smoke pot and it is a problem having an arrest record, let alone having gone to prison, so we need to make it legal. Besides, pot is no worse than alcohol."

SoLow said...

I think that anything a parent chooses to do pertaining to monitoring their kiddos activities is a good thing. A teenager has to EARN privacy - it's not a god given right.

At some point though, I don't think your testing alone will prevent them from ever trying it out. As a teen, I knew fully well on a Friday night that my mom was at home listening to the police scanner while we were out wreaking havoc in town. I knew she'd probably be waiting for me when I got home. It didn't stop me from guzzling Busch beers all evening and then running from the cops. Granted, I chose not to partake in any drug use until well after I left the Marines, but who's to say drinking beer and Jack Daniels as a teenager is any better?

free0352 said...

There is a big difference between government and family.

That said, good luck. If a kid wants to do it he'll do it anyway and when he pops hot tell you to fuck yourself. I've seen a whole lot of 18 year olds do that IN THE FACE OF THE BRIG/STOCKADE so trust me on this one... there isn't a whole lot you can do.

elspeth said...

You bring up good points that I never considered. Good job!

JpKnowMad said...

Good initiative, but there are a few possible downsides. There are quite a few drugs out there that clear out of your system much faster than marijuana. I knew of a few guys in my USMC unit that used other, harder drugs because it was harder to get caught than if you smoked a joint. So if he actually has a desire to try anything, your tests could very well push him to the harder drugs in an attempt to still pass your drug tests.

jim marquis said...

Crabby- Marijuana is just another thing people happen to enjoy. It helps you relax, it makes sex TRULY awesome and it's a wonderful, effective alternative to prescription painkillers. And to be honest, I think it's better than alcohol in the sense that nobody gets high and starts a fight. Instead, they look for something to eat and then go to bed.

jim marquis said...

Oh, and if it's legal, the states can tax it. Just watch how many figure that out in the next few years.

Zelda said...

You must do what you must do. Luckily for me, my girls are geeky and nerdy and just don't hang out with the kids who are into that stuff. My younger one calls them "the badass kids" (she doesn't mean that as a compliment) and shuns them like the adorable little nun she is. Eldest is a free spirit and will do what she wants, but so far that seems to be playing video games, basketball, and begging to go to anime conventions.

Bram said...

I don't believe in drug or alcohol prohibition for adults. It's demeaning and simply doesn't work. The Dru War has wasted more lives and cost more money than unregulated drugs (which they all were prior to 1913) ever would have.

Children living under my roof, however, will live by my rules.

Impeach Somone Already said...

Passing a drug is simple especially if your on drugs. If you raised a smart enough kid they can easily pass it as so many have done throughout the years.

"Hey J wanna get lit."
--"Nah ma test for stuff."
"There is no test for bath salts or half the stuff in my bag."
--"Sweet being kept a prison in my own home is no fun."
"Tru dat that is why most of the binge drinking in college happens to kids who lived in strict homes."
--"Really where's the proof?"
"Just shut up and gay kiss me again. Imagine when your mom finds out about this."

ALa said...

I must take issue with a few points...
-I was raised in an uber strict house (that included 12 years of Christian school) and I never did drugs.
-I also never binge drank in college (even though in England my dorm building had a bar in the lobby).
-Drug testing a few times a year is hardly a prison and that's my point...I am one of the most liberal parents because of this ability.
-He is also an athlete, so I think his coach would be aware of changes.

I'm not saying it will prevent anything --I'm just saying it lets him know I care and have a vested interest and it might stave off experimentation for a bit longer...and gives him a nice way to escape peer pressure should he wish to take it.

And quite frankly at this point, I'm much more concerned with the constant gaggle of girls on my front step... ;)

Fearthuinn min an Saille said...

You're not the gov't, and you're not his school. Though, I'm surprised his sports team doesn't require random testing (and for schools, I don't have issue with testing athletes, since UIL will disqualify a whole team for one person testing positive on any drug screen).

But, I will say, given he's had this many negative tests, at some point are you going to lighten up on his testing requirements?

PS, my dad was the tech who did the country drug test screens for the police. So I got the threats....not that it stopped me. But I did tell him about my pot smoking after I had been 9 months clean.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Malarkey:
Alcohol is just another thing people happen to enjoy…
I was one who enjoyed it more than most. Because I got diabetes about 15 years ago, I am a virtual teetotaler now. I reveal this to show that I am not in the camp that thinks people who drink won’t go to heaven.
Because alcohol has been imbedded in human existence for thousands of years, it is not ever going to go away. The idea of prohibition (an early example of social engineering) was beyond ridiculous.
That said, I don’t think anyone will try to deny that we have paid a HUGE cost for alcohol, particularly when it is first introduced (ancient Gauls, American Indians, Eskimos and Pacific Islanders), and continue to do so. The only serious benefit I am aware of is that beer and wine provided a reasonably safe source of drinking water in the days when most water was filthy.
You apparently are only able to provide frivolous “benefits” of legalizing marijuana, a substance in the introductory phase when compared to alcohol.
I have yet to see any argument that justifies even the RISK of the possible unintended consequences of legalization. Until someone DOES have a credible argument that there would be a real benefit to legalizing marijuana, I will remain in the strongly opposed camp.
The argument that legalization would take the product out of the black market and load up the tax coffers is not convincing. Have you heard of moonshine? Bootlegged cigarettes?
By the way, yes the war on drugs costs a lot of money. If an unintended consequence of legal pot is in fact more widespread use of harder drugs, how much is that going to cost? Can you point to a “benefit” that justifies that risk?
Bram, why do you suppose the government stepped in in 1913?

Anonymous said...

ALa:
After thinking about your home testing, I have become uneasy.
I know what my own reaction would have been when I was fourteen: Smoldering resentment that probably would have manifested itself in some undesireable way.

CrabbyOldMan said...

ALA:
I am Anonymous 2:57PM
I hit the wrong damned key.

free0352 said...

What are the unintended consequeces of weed? An increase in dorito consuption? Harder drugs? If some one is dumb enough to smoke crack, obviously they don't care about themselves, let alone following the law. I say let Darwin take its course and naturally select out the weak of the herd without a pointless expendature of tax dollars.

As for kids, your house, your rules aside- when - worked for CPS which some of you may remember, you'd be amazed how many parents I arrested for "tough love". "Oh, my son is a fuck up and won't listen so we kicked him out of the house". Oh, well guess what that is child abandonment and you are going to jail. "My kid is a fuck up so I kicked his ass". A spanking is one thing, but that kid has bruises and a black eye. I'm arresting you for domestic violemce, child abuse and aggrivated assault. If you're lucky you'll escape the mandatory two years in prison.

Shit happened weekly. And always the shocked look on mom and dad's face. So you tough lovers out there- just use common sense about it.

free0352 said...

And in fairness, I arrested a slew of retard parents for smoking pot with their kid or for giving them alcahol. "I let little johnny and his pals drink here because they'll do it anyway so I let em do it here where its safe and I can supervise.". Well guess what, you are under arrest for contibuting to the delinquency of a minor, providing a controlled substance to a person under 21 and criminal child neglect. Oh. And even togh you thought you had all the car keys little mikey snuck out and killed himdelf or someone else behind the wheel? Well that's manslaughter for you, with a five year minimum, a 25 year max and you'll likely get 15 if you cop a plea. With any luck you'll do 5 with good time. Enjoy being a prison bitch!

CrabbyOldMan said...

Free0352:
The whole problem with your "let Darwin take its course" argument, as with Libertarian arguments generally, is that people's acts and omissions do not exist in a vacuum. That is, the rest of us inevitably share the consequences. There are the higher costs of welfare, insurance, police, property damage, schools etc.
If the point of the rest of your posts is that there is no shortage of fools, and too much nanny statism, I agree.

Jpck20 said...

@Jpck20 - living in a 'shithole city' has nothing (well, not MUCH) to do with it

Environment has nothing to do with shaping a person?

What kind of crack are you smoking?

Seriously.

You think if Ala lived in Beverly Hills she'd be piss testing her kid?

I highly fucking doubt it. Highly.

Roboto said...

Odds are, if she lived in Beverly Hills, SHE couldn't pass the whiz quiz...

free0352 said...

Crabby, firstly your problem should be with the safety hammock not what people are doing with their own bodies. Secondn if you think the costs you mentioned are expensive try looking up what it costs to incarcerate millions of drug offenders.

CrabbyOldMan said...

I wouldn't care at all "what people do with their own bodies." if the rest of us did not have to shoulder the consequences. Do you imagine that the safety hammock is ever going to go away, particulary if there are even more people who "do what they want with their own bodies"?
I'll bet the farm that the cost of incarceration does not match the cost of letting drug users run free. Can you point to any study? I cannot. I strongly suspect this is becasue the left does not want the public to see the results.

free0352 said...

I can tell you it costs about 260000 a year all in per inmate.

CrabbyOldMan said...

$260,000 to keep someone locked up compared to how much to let them run around and drive up the cost of police, insurance, burglar alarms, property damage, welfare for themselves and their children, diminished property values for wherever they frequent, the medical costs of their victims and the non-monetary pain, suffering and gross inconvenience to the rest of us?
I think it is probably at least a monetary wash and a solid gain if we count the non-monetary costs as things are now. This would be particularly true if we used a non-union prison farm system in place of what we have now.

free0352 said...

Truth is the only crime the vast majority of drug users ever commit is using drugs. Obviusly if we stoppedlocking them up, we wouldn't have to pay for that anymore, and would actually MAKE revenue from taxing sales. As illegal drugs are a billion dollar business, that's some serious money. Further, over night we would decimate every drug cartel operating in this hemisphere just as ending prohibition ended the vast majority of bootlegging. I like the idea of denying the Mexican cartels and gangs their main income stream. This has been done in many other countries to wild and universal success. The results of drug decriminalization will be the same as ending prohibition. A net gain and a big reduction in crime.

free0352 said...

Also, if a person fully milks the entitlement tit, they eat about 60000 in tax dollars. Contrast this with 260000 and you don't have be a rocket scientist to see wich is cheaper- especially what with the death rates of hard drug users. Quite frankly, they die from addiction in a few years vs living for decades on that third strike mandatory life sentence at 260000 a year to babysit. The vast majority of inmate costs are from providing their health care and the cost of guarding them, and that cost will never go away.

free0352 said...

Lastly, many stayes now have mandatory drug testing to get welfare. So in those statesbthe social service aspect is not relevant and in fact legalization might REDUCE those on welfare rolls.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Free0352: You did not address the costs I touched on that Liberals and Libertarians both ignore when they compare the costs of incarceration and the costs of letting the criminals run around.
We end up with the medical costs, the food costs and the housing costs whether they are locked up or not, so those should not be part of your equation either. That leaves the cost of guarding to compare with the non-monetary costs (the pain, suffering and gross inconvenience).
I have no confidence at all that the drug testing to get welfare is not winked at.
I had forgotten that organized crime has not existed in this country since the repeal of prohibition.

Nate said...

COM,

The basis of your argument is that drug consumers are criminals -- take away the prohibition and voila they are no longer criminals. They are now punished for actual acts that cause harm, not the acts that are associated with it.

I think I'd be happiest with the status quo except non-enforcement unless it was also associated with an act of actual harm, theft, etc. I can't think that another activity lacking social value is really beneficial in the long run, but at the same time it is obviously even to the delusional folks that comment here, that the drug war is not working.

As the Economist so duly notes, it is impossible to fight a war that success results in greater economic wealth to those that you are attempting to prosecute. Every successful bust results in higher prices, resulting in better methods for avoiding further busts.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Nate:
My central argument is that drug addicts have to live off the rest of us. They either steal and live off government and/or private charity or are low productivity employees who are difficult to fire because of their "disability". I think that if their entire cost, both monetary and non-monetary, is taken into account, locking them up is probably cheaper than letting them run free.

free0352 said...

Your arguement makes no sense. You're saying drug addicts must have every waking need provided. First that isn't true because single men don't qualify for most welfare, and that is most drug offenders. Second even if that were true, adding the considerable cost of guarding people does not make this cheaper. As for number of drug addicts, they will be reduced with legalization for the sumple reason drug dealers today don't care how old their customers are let alone card customers unlike lawful business would. The experience with alcahol in this country alone blows your theory out of the water.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Free0352:
Are you saying that drug addicts do not require food and shelter?
Are you saying that they will not rob if we don't provide those things?
"Most" is not "all".
The argument you use to support legalization reducing addiction is absolutely unconvincing.
You will have to be patient and explain how our experience with alcohol blows my theory out of the water.

free0352 said...

Clearly what little welfare going to male drug addicts is much, much cheaper than paying for their every hunan need as prison inmates, not to mention the monumental costs of running the jails and prisons. With testing requirements already in place in many states this number of welfare addicts drops next to zero. Take a huge city like Frankfurt Germany where most drugs are legal and what few anti drug laws there are are seldom enforced and contrast that with a similar sized US city and very quickly you see that while Germany offers far more welfare programs than we do they still spend less and have a much lower crime rate over all. Even though you can do heroin on a street corner there if so inclined. And some do. In front of the Polizi no less. And funny enough, there are fewer numbers of addicts per capita in Germany with the permissive climate.

We experience this in America daily with alcahol. Certainly alcaholics can be troublesome but it was much worse on every level during prohibition and no one today would consider a return to it. Drug criminalization is repeating the same prohibition mistake and expecting differant results, the definition of insanity. Just like we were told shall issue gum permits would cause a sky rocket in gun crime didn't turn out to be true but quite the opposite, so too it goes with stupid drug laws.

Zelda said...

++ free. Now if only we can get the Nanny Nate's to agree to not start a government War on Obesity. :-)

CrabbyOldMan said...

Free0352:
Do you know of any source where there are credible, comprehensive stats that either support or refute our opposing positions?
I admit that I do not.
Until one of us can point to such figures, there is little point in continuing the argument.
Very Frankly, I don't consider your arguments at all convincing. For instance, Germany had a much, much lower crime rate than we did even back when I was stationed there. I think it was because of the German no-nonsense approach to law enforcement generally. Does the Army still explain to new comer GIs that it is a very bad idea to steal or run from the cops?

free0352 said...

Well if by no nonsense you mean the Polizi does not bother worrying about stupid laws like prostitution, gambling or drug use the yes. All of those things are legal in Germany and as you said, they have much less authentic crime. Same for the Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavian countries and the Czech Republic. Contrast that with countries with stupid pointless laws like Russia and the US with massive crime rates. The answer is clear and very stark. We were told medicinal marijuana laws (which we all know are a joke) would cause this spike in crime and it didn't happen. LE shouldmt be wasting its time chasing after victimless crimes and focus on real criminal activity. Drug laws create criminals.

CrabbyOldMan said...

Free0352:
Apparently you don't know where to find the statistics I want either.

free0352 said...

Find them yourself. What are you five years old, can't type into a search bar? Do your own research, I got shit to do.

Freemom said...

Crabby, a lot of addicts - especially those addicted to prescription drugs...go to work every day. You presuppose they will be poor and live off the rest of us. Wouldn't it be smarter to just end welfare instead? As for the kids...who was it that said "Trust, but verify?"

Anonymous said...

Marijuana isn't the enemy that's for sure. Shameful article, poor son lol.

Anonymous said...

Testing a child that has never violated your trust is dispicable.
The lesson you are teaching is one of zero trust and that will not create a healthy adult.

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