Do you remember the conversation in "When Harry Met Sally" about men and women not being able to be friends because 'the sex thing always gets in the way'...
That exact conversation has taken place in our house 4,000 times. We have that exact 'discussion/disagreement' over and over. I wanted to post about that and just relay his side, but decided to bring The Man in on the conversation...
ALa: OK, So we will start out simple and I will ask you this...You know that I have many male friends --and it is your contention that NONE of them are my friends because of my sparkling personality?
Tesco: Thanks for taking it down to my 'simple' level. Strike one. *Disclaimer: All answers are based on the majority of my experience*. We as men are drawn to women for the obvious reasons. If a friendship develops, rest assured it started with attraction. If it wasn't actual physical attraction, it was a 'mental picture' attraction.
ALa: How about YOUR friends that are friends with me too then?
Tesco: Physical attraction.
ALa: This really pisses me off. You are saying that my personality isn't good enough for someone just to like? I think guys like me because I like a lot of 'guy things'...Harleys, tattoos, death metal.... I have always had more guy than girl friends. AND before you say it...I never slept with them -so they are willing to hang around for years on a hope?
Tesco: How did they know you liked these 'guy things'? They had to talk to you to find this out. Why did they talk to you? Because they found you ATTRACTIVE!
ALa: Not necessarily...they could have been introduced through a friend -the way WE were... You didn't talk to me because I was pretty or ugly, you talked to me because we ended up in the same crowd.
Tesco: Answer this, What was the first question I asked 'P' when we were away from you?
ALa: I have no idea...
Tesco: Oh, you do.... I told you the morning after the 'Ice Capades'.... 'P', How the f*** did YOU get that?!
ALa: THAT? I was a that? *sighs* But what if I would have looked different? Are you saying that we were friends for FIVE years before we started dating because of how I looked -that I wasn't fun to hang out with --do you see how shitty that is?!
Tesco: Think back Ala..... Your not-so-attractive friend claimed to 'like' me after I met both of you.... How long have I been friends with her?
ALa: Circumstances. Do you understand why this is so upsetting? You don't. It means that women must be suspect of every man --and not because of anything she is or isn't doing, but because your contention is that all men are base pigs... AND you have been friends with unattractive women --even dated a few if memory serves...
Tesco: You have the most beautiful [edited by ALa].
Ala: Be serious! You are conceding then? Men are pigs and are incapable of relating to a woman on an intellectual/emotional level without thinking of scoring somewhere down the road?
Tesco: Ok, (*enter serious tesco*) Men will 'strike up' a conversation with a woman when he is attracted to her.... even if at the time he can't score with her for what ever reason, somewhere in his mind he feels he will. We are a perfect example of that. This doesn't mean a substantive relationship can't be formed on the way, it means that given the opportunity, he will risk that relationship for a shot at her [edited by ALa].
Ala: Well, at least that's a bit more honest... It's still sad though, and I guess it's why many women long for a gay friend. I know that men may think being friends because of attraction is a compliment, but women don't. Alright, how about this...if there was no such thing as sex -would men and women be friends?
Ala: That is SO F'ed up! So really you're saying that if it weren't for sex you would all be gay... You would rather be hanging with other men than with women... ?
Tesco: Yes...............No really, we would definitely have a lot less female friends. We would have no reason initially to speak to you.... then again, without the sexual attraction we would never know you were created in hell.... Tough question - Pass.
Ala: You never answered about the unattractive women that you have been friends with (the tooth), did you want to have sex with them too?
Tesco: Unattractive to YOU. I slept with every 'friend' I had. Well, almost... the ones I didn't sleep with, I wanted to.
Ala: You are a pig and I can't believe that I bore your children. Ok, here is a two part question. You are claiming that you have NEVER had a friend that you didn't sleep with or didn't want to sleep with? AND, how about MY friends that you are friends with now...do you want to sleep with them?
Tesco: Do I have to answer that?
Tesco: Technicality - As the 'hunter' you have to accept your surroundings and sometimes embrace them. If an honest friendship develops, it was beyond control - STILL the friendship was based on the attraction to the 'prey'.
ALa: Wow...politician answer... OK, so I am now assuming that you want to sleep with all my friends BESIDES the new 16 yr. old blonde at WaWa... *laughing* Alright, Last question. Let's say I'll concede for the moment that a male/female relationship begins on the basis of physical attraction -can that be overcome to a regular platonic friendship without ever sleeping together?
Tesco: Well..... Yes..... but that doesn't mean he won't jump on the first opportunity if it arises. ....She has GOT to be older than 16!!!
ALa: She is NOT older than 16... you and CJM are two dirty old men.... Anyway, ok, so what if she sleeps with him -can they be friends then with no more strings?
Tesco: If it's up to him, yes. My experience is that SHE won't let it be... either it becomes a more 'involved' relationship or they drift apart.
ALa: This is why we keep having this discussion...because it just goes in circles and the bottom line is that men are so base and shallow. It's quite sad actually...