Thursday, November 04, 2004

It Was a Strong Message...


You can see from the map above -courtesy of USA Today- that there are no red states and blue states anymore...there are progressive pockets in an America that wants to return to some semblance of traditional values. This election was a strong message to the George Soros', the Eli Parisers' and most important to Hollywood. George Clooney's dad even lost his bid for Senate seat...which says a lot because if Georgey knocked on my door I might promise to vote for Satan himself...
I believe the American people were saying 'stop speaking for us...you have no idea what 'real' life is about'. Do most Americans want a Jerry Falwell-run radical right? -No, I think most Americans are Centrists or just to the right of that...BUT I think they would rather the right than the too-progressive left...judging by the map.

But the Democratic operatives just don't get it. They were all over TV this morning saying how they have to reassess strategy...and find a candidate they can run that appeals to people who want 'moral values'...someone who can win some red states. Here's a tip: No one with 'true faith' or 'moral values' would vote against banning partial birth abortion. It's not a strategy -its fact. Barrack Obama -their new 'rising star' voted against banning LIVE-birth abortion...this is leaving a baby (that was meant to die in a late-term abortion, but ooops was born alive) in a KFC bucket in a utility closet until it dies. The life isn't 'viable'...then again, I don't think that my boys would have faired to well in those circumstances either. Mr. Obama...good luck with your Presidential ambitions, as you claim to be a Christian, while you voted against banning this act of barbarism. It was your man, Kerry, who kept saying that a man with words and no deeds is dead...but he failed to follow his own mantra. He told us that he believed that life began at conception -yet he wouldn't legislate that way. So, I believe it's a life but that someone should still have the legal authority to end it?...but wait...Dr. Kavorcian is in jail, isn't he?

This isn't indicative of a country over-run with snake charmers and people who speak in tongues. This means we don’t want to be Europe…that’s why we fought and died to be America. This means that many of us are 'traditional'...we aren't ready for our Kindergarteners to be assigned 'Heather has two Mommies'-that doesn't mean we hate gays...it just means that it's our responsibility to teach our kids about it in our time...not the schools or the governments. We can't understand screaming "My mom didn't have a choice!" in a voice dripping with hate, or saying you work for the good of children when you are a major abortion advocate -that doesn't mean we would shoot an abortion doctor or blow up a clinic. We can't fathom the problem with the Ten Commandments sitting in a public place or saying 'Under God' in the pledge -this doesn't mean we want mandatory tent revivals on every corner. We don't get 'pacifism & appeasement' --this doesn't mean we don't long for peace...we differ on how it is achieved and that difference is born out in history. We are not radicals...we are realists.

Many Democrats in this country are social conservatives --and are only Democrats because of Union affiliations or race-not progressive ideals. The more progressive the party becomes -the more of these one-issue-oriented voters you will lose. Maybe this will be the beginning of a Centrist Party...

Just some random thoughts after listening to the seeming shock and utter confusion of the Washington elite today... (and reading the self-induced hysteria on the left side of the blogosphere...)

25 comments:

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

When you look at the red/blue map and then look at the percentages by popular vote, it's easy to see that the map is slightly misleading in that the "blue" voters live in concentrated populated areas without much physical territory to them. Well, that and Duluth, the festering boil on the backside of Minnesota... wait, wait, togetherness, togetherness, I need to stop being caustic... I mean, Duluth the BRETHEREN to the quaint and picturesque northern region of our great Frozen Tundra state...

Anyway, Twin Cities voted "blue" but it only shows up as a speck on the map.

Jericho Brown said...

ALa: Nice attempt at bi-partisanship or centrism or whatever the fuck you want to call it. But while there are plenty of one-issue voters (my father-in-law being one of them), the turn-out of Bush voters on Tuesday was far more influenced by the GOP's impeccable ability to spin well. That's all there is to it. Until the Democrats get a Rove of their own, your fascists will contunie to win, you're right. But sometimes it doesn't take spin to win. Sometimes the facts become so evident--even to those who pay the least amount of attention to politics--that spin is no longer effective. This is why I congratulate all who have supported Bush. Because in the next four years EVERYONE will see what we've been saying all along when, without having to worry about reelection, he blatantly tramples on pretty much everyone. You heard it here first: 2008 prediction: Jeb Bush--30 million votes vs. ANY DEMOCRAT: 90 million

free0352 said...

Such a good post, you said what I was trying to say with the thred posted the day after the ellection.

ALa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ALa said...

Cig:
yeah...but aint it a pretty site?

lol...

Can you imagine that George Bush got over 5 million votes in Cali?

amazing...

Jericho:
Cheer up...if it were not for all of this --you wouldn't have met ME! lol....

Free:
Thanks...obviously reading what Jericho wrote --I still wasn't able to truly convey the point.

riceburner147 said...

Ala: So when do you run for county board of Commisioners.

Tom said...

Jericho Brown:

Couldn't reach the grapes, heh?

Tom said...

Jericho Brown:

And now the serious response (which is more than your hyperbolic nonsense deserves).

"...the turn-out of Bush voters on Tuesday was far more influenced by the GOP's impeccable ability to spin well. That's all there is to it. Until the Democrats get a Rove of their own, your fascists will contunie to win, you're right."

This is why you morons on the left are forever condemned to drowning in your own piss. All of those voters who pulled the lever for Bush/Cheney are stupid and taken in by "spin". They either don't know the "facts" or don't comprehend the "facts". Even we don't believe that of your side. We sincerely believe that you all sincerely believe your view of the world. We don't agree with it. Granted, some of you are a little better at coherently explaining it than others, and unfortunately, you're not one of them. The problem is, those who disagree with your view of the world as reflected in the Kerry/Edwards team outnumbered you. You're too frigging stupid to realize that they just might have examined Kerry/Edwards and the liberal agenda and decided it wasn't good for the country. But they don't write for the New York Times or work in the entertainment industry, so they can't possibly know what they're doing.

Try not to be a self-righteous asswipe your whole life. You'll feel better.

Tom said...

Jericho:

And stop using "fuck" when addressing dollface or referring to her opinions. It's rude.

Jericho Brown said...

Tom (aka Prole the FUCKHEAD)

It has nothing to do with "views of the world." It has everythiong to do with how the GOP smears the other side with blatant falsehoods, and how the American public generally is taken in by the incredibly well-crafted spin put out by the GOP the covers up all their lies and deciet. It has ZERO to do with views of the world. There is no other explanation for why poor or lower middle-class people, the majority of whom make up this country, would vote back into office someone whose decision-making is putting their children in the direct line of fire (rich people's kids don't tend to enroll in the military)and most assuredly making the rich richer and poor poorer. These are straight facts, not "views of the world." The GOP wins with SPIN, Fuckhead.

Jericho Brown said...

Prole:

I think ALa is capable of standing up for herself, thanks. If I was her I'd be offended that you feel the need to protect her when it's obvious she could kick your ass. But you'd probably be happy anyway that "Dollface" was just touching you. Too bad she's already taken, huh? ;)(Kick his ass, Tesco)

Tom said...

Jericho:

"It has everythiong to do with how the GOP smears the other side with blatant falsehoods, and how the American public generally is taken in by the incredibly well-crafted spin put out by the GOP the covers up all their lies and deciet."

Your dyslexia aside, in a feeble attempt to refute my response to your silliness, you only further support my argument that you are clueless as to what makes you look like a clown: namely, you're saying I was wrong when I said that you believe non-liberal Democrat voting Americans are stupid and/or easily duped by spin because non-liberal Democrat voting Americans are stupid and/or easily duped by spin. A majority of voters couldn't possibly have voted against the Kerry unless they were all hypnotized.

"It has ZERO to do with views of the world. There is no other explanation for why poor or lower middle-class people, the majority of whom make up this country, would vote back into office someone whose decision-making is putting their children in the direct line of fire (rich people's kids don't tend to enroll in the military)and most assuredly making the rich richer and poor poorer."

Oh, most assuredly. Why? Because Michael Moore and moveon.aholes say so.

Could you be a little more tautological and idiotic, jericho? Please? I don't think we've laughed quite enough today.

Lucky for you they don't demand voter literacy tests.

Kat said...

From zell miller to the democrats:

The most recent failed nominee for president stands as proof that the national Democratic Party will continue to dwindle. The South has gone from just one-fourth of the Electoral College in 1960 to almost a third today.

To put this in perspective, that gain is equal to all the electoral votes in Ohio. Yet there was not a single Southern state where John Kerry had any real chance. Would anyone like to place bets on the electoral strength of the South by 2012? Maybe they should tax stupidity.

When you write off centrist and conservative policies that reflect the will of people in the South and Midwest, you write off the South and Midwest. Democrats have never learned from the second or third or fifth kick of a mule. They continue to change only the makeup on, rather than makeup of, the Democrat Party.

And so we have a realignment election. For the first time, in an "us vs. them" election and in the toughest of situations, Republicans have been re-elected to the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives.

The dems say he's not a real Democrat. Like an uncle tom Democrat. But guess what. That make me one too and I might say that the real democrats knew what happened to the party and the new democrats don't see a problem with it.

there's your sign.

Donal said...

Intresting, why do you say that the only democrats are union members and minorities? just wondering. The partial-birth abortion ban- Obama voted against it because it doesnt allow doctors to do so if the health of the mother is endangered but it must be ok by you if they both die. Anyway the Republican party is starting to move away from their traditional values- fiscal responsibility for one. So if the Dems get their heads out of their ass, that map might change next time.

ALa said...

Donal -there is no such thing as 'health of the mother' when it comes to partial birth abortion. If the mother was 'in danger' they would do a C-section which can be done in less than TWO MINUTES and with partial birth abortion they have to induce full labor...come on...try again.

mr_nimbus said...

Strong message?

I agree.

The message, however, would be this: Partisans are clueless when it comes to statistics.

You live, I imagine in a Philly row house. If that is true, then my bet is that you own no more than .05 acres of land. Does this mean that your voice is less important then someone who lives on 3000 acres? That a 50 mile splotch of red, where only 100 people actually live, is somehow more significant than a 5 acre splotch of blue that is home to 200 people?

This is exactly what your "Strong Message" is claiming.

The true map would reveal a mass of grey, indicating forests, mountains, deserts, etc. Interspersed in that sea of grey would be your "progressive pockets", which I guarantee would be microscopic, and in low density areas, far removed from one another.

If you are truly a Republican, then why would you care about abortion? Aren't you supposed to be the party who believes that government should stay out of peoples lives? And what, pray tell, are traditional values? The values of the founding fathers who set this whole thing in motion or the superstitious rantings of fear junkies who believe eternal punishment?

You need to take a good, hard look at the founding fathers. Their values are not yours - not by a long shot.

: This means we don't want to be Europe…that's why we fought and died
: to be America.

Wrong. Someone else fought and died to become American, and their motivations were way more involved than your simplistic statement.

: We can't fathom the problem with the Ten Commandments sitting in a public place
: or saying 'Under God' in the pledge -this doesn't mean we want mandatory tent revivals
: on every corner.


You are uninformed - there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the display of religious paraphernalia in public - as log as it is done on private property. There are rules, however, about putting it in government buildings, or using public funds.

This is something our founding fathers wanted, which is why they opted to separate church and state.

Partisans, like yourself, are real good with the talk. You can babble about less government until the cows come home, you may say that you don't want tent revivals on every corner as well, but the simple truth is this: You want this country to be guided by your core religious beliefs - period. That includes superseding the rights of individuals, if it offends your religion.

Face it - you and your ilk are exactly what the founding fathers were trying to protect the rest of us from.

That is the only strong message I got.

ALa said...

1) I do not, nor have I ever lived in a 'Philly Rowhouse'...wrong blog…
2) There are gray areas on the map
3) *ugh* This 'no government in people's lives argument against abortion' is TOO ridiculous...have you ever heard a Republican say murder should be legal because we shouldn't be in other's lives? You can do what ever you want with YOUR life...it's when you do it to someone else without their consent that we have a problem with it.
4) Separation of church and state was meant to keep the government from IMPOSING a religion on the people (Like Iran) NOT meant to remove all scraps of God away.
5) Maybe you should do your research as it was one of the 'founding fathers' that said that the constitution and law could not be enforced in the absence of God and morality...
Listen...I realize your bitter, but I am trying to explain why you lost...and why you will lose again if you keep excluding people like Governor Bob Casey from your party because he was pro-life (which according to a Gallop poll done not that long ago almost 70% of Americans are...)

Jericho Brown said...

ALa and every other "well-meaning" Republican: For the last time, and I'm asking nicely without any cursing or blue language--Please do not tell us EVER again why it is you think we lost. You have no idea. It is condescending and really annoying. We lost because of the Machiavellian tactics employed by Karl Rove, which were brought to him by his forefathers such as Joseph Goebbels. The so-called swing vote and fundamentalist "Christians" who "voted their values" did so only because of the twisted spin they were hit with on a daily basis by the likes of Swiftboat Vets for Truth. Not one single accusation they made was true or verifiable. Two can play at that game. Watch and wait...

ALa said...

Jericho...doesn't matter cause none of you ever listen anyway...better for us if you think the 'Swiftvets' have anything to do with the motivations of the evangelicals...better for us...because you will continue to lose...

riceburner147 said...

MR N: I went over to your blog and read your latest post. it was great and i thank you for your service to our country.
I would like to respectfully disagree as to your post here that the state needs protection from the "Church". I disagree with your invocation of the Founding Fathers as subscribing to this position. Now, dont get me wrong, We do need protection from both church and state, look at the persecutions thru the ages, done in the name of "God". And the excesses of the state, well i dont need to say anything here that you dont already know.

However, let us go back to 17th century Europe (and b4) and think back to those groups who came here (the New WOrld) seeking freedom. Who were these groups ? Lets think of the Quakers for instance. A religious group that in England and Europe were persecuted by the Established State religion. They came to our shores seeking Religious freedom, (and maybe to make a few bucks) not running away from God, but to Him. This was true of countless groups, Puritans, Pennsylvania Deutch (Anabaptists), even catholics (re: Maryland). The point is, when our founding fathers wrote our laws, they were intent upon protecting free worship from the STATE. This is why you would have seen Christian influence in almost every great college in the 13 colonies ie: Princeton, Harvard, Yale, U of Penn etc all founded by Christians (or people who were profoundly religious).

Today, it seems the reverse is true. Most people seem to think the the emphasis needs to be on protecting the State from religious practice. I believe in the seperation of church and state strongly, but please dont invoke the founders as having the intent many do today.

btw: i dont care much one way or the other if their is 10 Commandments or such on public space, it is much more important that Christians live their faith by loving their neighbors etc. than having some words most people ignore on a plaque on a building.

folkgirl said...

Kids are taught that this country was founded by people escaping religious persecution. They created a government and a constitution that allowed citizens to be free. The came up with a notion of "separation of church and state". But the "moral values" argument used by the right is basing political agendas on religious beliefs. People like Free0325 would have you believe that people like me are the spawn of satan, have no morals and deserve to be drawn and quartered. The 10 Commandments are really just the Christian's way of saying, "be nice to your neighbor and don't screw them over." I can have morals and not be a chrisitan and it is really getting annoying when it is insinuated otherwise.

I know a lesbian couple who went through more than anyone I know to have a child. Miscarriage after miscarriage. This family is a far more loving one than most traditional marriages. But, because our government is using conservative translations of the bible and are trying to legislate these religious views, they are being denied the right to get married. It is no longer the begining of time - marriage is when two people commit to each other. I was not married in the church, but I am certainly married to my husband. Jesus was a pretty kind and decent guy and probably would have appreciated gay and lesbian couples commiting to each other and raising loving families in the church. And, no matter how much you wish they would go away, people have been having gay and lesbian sex for centuries and they will continue to do so. Unless you want to be the part of history that we look back on like we do the times before blacks got civil rights, we may as well start teaching our kids that it is alright to be who they are and that they should accept others for who they are as well - even if you don't agree with their lifestyle. Not necessarily as cirriculum in school, but at least in a "love thy neighbor" sort of way.

And no, "under God" technically has no place in the Pledge - again, separation of church and state. I'm not going to picket alone in front of my son's future elementary school, but I'm not looking forward to the day he comes home asking questions as to why we don't go to church and that "Johnny says our family is a bunch of heathens." I guess I see this the same way ALa sees her kids learning about gays in school - this is personal to my family - we'll discuss it when it is our time to discuss it.

ALa said...

FG:
Don't worry...seriously. They DO NOT talk about God in public schools...kids recite the pledge and never even think about the meaning. It seems, however, they can teach your children that soldiers and policeman are evil because they have guns....and that cute Bam-Bam costume (with a club aka weapon)...that would be a no-no (see my new post)...

Donal said...

I'm not a doctor but according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists it may be the best or most appropriate procedure in a particular circumstance to save the life or preserve the health of a woman. Also the risk of a mother dying from a C-section is 4 in 10,000, while vaginal births carry a 1 in 10,000 risk. I'm just saying that if they want to ban it just make sure it doesnt endanger the health of the woman. There are also issues of birth defects not being detected until the third trimester- although that isnt an abortion discussion thats ethunasia. That has to be a diffucult decision for any parent to have to make- they shouldnt have to worry about the law during it.

folkgirl said...

Teachers (hopefully) don't talk about God, but kids do. He may be too young yet, but when church youth groups start going on overnight ski trips and stuff like they do around here, it comes up. And kids get left out. At least, if I can remember back that far, that's how it worked.

mr_nimbus said...

ALa71 said:

: 2) There are gray areas on the map

You can't be serious.

Please look at the map again. Pay particular attention to areas like the Grand Canyon, The Mojave desert, The Rockies, Greens, The Appalachian Trail - it doesn't look grey to me.

Your interpretation is a fallacy, and your attempts to defend it only makes you look more foolish.

:3) ... You can do what ever you want with YOUR
: life...it's when you do it to someone else without
: their consent that we have a problem with it.

You are right - that is your problem. Abortion is legal - deal with it.


: 4) Separation of church and state was meant to keep
: the government from IMPOSING a religion on the
: people (Like Iran) NOT meant to remove all scraps
: of God away.

Wrong. It was meant to guarantee a secular government that is free of religious influence. Period.


: 5) Maybe you should do your research as it was one
: of the 'founding fathers' that said that the
: constitution and law could not be enforced in the
: absence of God and morality...


Which one? Someone in the Freemason contingent? The Rosicrucian founders? The Deists?

Here are other founding father's thought on the matter:
"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
-- James Madison

"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible."
-- Thomas Paine

:Listen...I realize your bitter, but I am trying to
: explain why you lost..

That would be an astute observation - if I was a dem.
Since I am not, then it is, much like any other neocon observation, a worthless partisian rumination with no basis in reality.