Tuesday, October 12, 2004

Osama's Letter to America

I am reading "Osama's Revenge -The Next 9/11", by Paul L. Williams, right now. The book opens with a letter that Osama Bin Laden wrote America in November 24, 2002. I had never read this before and I know that it is long, but I REALLY think that it is something that everyone should read. I read online that a newspaper in the UK was the only publication that published this in its entirety. I won't put commentary (though I have tons...)

Onward into the head of an Ideological Madman.....

Begin Letter:
In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]
"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]
Some American writers have published articles under the title 'On what basis are we fighting?' These articles have generated a number of responses, some of which adhered to the truth and were based on Islamic Law, and others which have not. Here we wanted to outline the truth - as an explanation and warning - hoping for Allah's reward, seeking success and support from Him.
While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at the Americans:
Why are we fighting and opposing you? What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:
Because you attacked us and continue to attack us. You attacked us in Palestine:
Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.
It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.
When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.
The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.
You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.
Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;
These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.
These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.
These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.
These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.
The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.
You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.
Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.
You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.
You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.
These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!
You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:
This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.
The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.
Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.
The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.
This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.
Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.
The American Government and press still refuses to answer the question:
Why did they attack us in New York and Washington?
If Sharon is a man of peace in the eyes of Bush, then we are also men of peace!!! America does not understand the language of manners and principles, so we are addressing it using the language it understands.
As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.
The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.
It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.
It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.
The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.
We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.
We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.
It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:
You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?
You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.
You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.
You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.
Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?
You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.
You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.
You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.
And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.
You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries.
Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.
That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?
Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.
The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!!!
Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.
You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.
As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.
You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.
What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"
What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves - and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.
We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.
We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you back as cargo in coffins.
Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.
We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you.
If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and fears none other than Him. The Nation which is addressed by its Quran with the words: "Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers. Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of believing people. And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise." [Quran9:13-1]
The Nation of honour and respect:
"But honour, power and glory belong to Allah, and to His Messenger (Muhammad- peace be upon him) and to the believers." [Quran 63:8]
"So do not become weak (against your enemy), nor be sad, and you will be*superior ( in victory )if you are indeed (true) believers" [Quran 3:139]
The Nation of Martyrdom; the Nation that desires death more than you desire life:
"Think not of those who are killed in the way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive with their Lord, and they are being provided for. They rejoice in what Allah has bestowed upon them from His bounty and rejoice for the sake of those who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve. They rejoice in a grace and a bounty from Allah, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers." [Quran 3:169-171]
The Nation of victory and success that Allah has promised:
"It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it victorious over all other religions even though the Polytheists hate it." [Quran 61:9]
"Allah has decreed that 'Verily it is I and My Messengers who shall be victorious.' Verily Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty." [Quran 58:21]
The Islamic Nation that was able to dismiss and destroy the previous evil Empires like yourself; the Nation that rejects your attacks, wishes to remove your evils, and is prepared to fight you. You are well aware that the Islamic Nation, from the very core of its soul, despises your haughtiness and arrogance.
If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice and the goodness, guidance and righteousness that we call them to, then be aware that you will lose this Crusade Bush began, just like the other previous Crusades in which you were humiliated by the hands of the Mujahideen, fleeing to your home in great silence and disgrace. If the Americans do not respond, then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.
This is our message to the Americans, as an answer to theirs. Do they now know why we fight them and over which form of ignorance, by the permission of Allah, we shall be victorious? End Letter.

33 comments:

free0352 said...

If it was really him, and not some cronie desperately trying to keep his image as figurehead of the base alive. If it was really him, I have one thing to say, and I've been saying it for a while


"I'll be seeing your buddies in June."

Jericho Brown said...

Thank you for posting this, ALa. I'm glad to finally hear, in their own words, why they hate us. It's really very frightening for two reasons. 1) They believe (and I'm sure they are unwavering in this belief) that their version of the Bible (Koran, Torah) is the only "correct" version and therefore anyone who does not follow theri version is a heretic. Since this is so immutable in their thought processes, I don't see there ever being an end to this. We will NEVER kill all the terrorists unless we plan to completely wipe out all of Islam, which is obviously an impossibility. 2) Judging by the tone alone, it appears that they wish the Enlightenment or Renaissance, when rational thought superseded the church beginning pretty much in the sixteenth Century, had never happened. They live in a world where science and anything else that contradicts so-called holy writing is completely disregarded, regardless of its merits. This is scary shit, and like I already said, onmly goes to show that we are standing at the very beginning of a conflict that will surely involve at least the next century--or until one of them gets their hands on nuclear and then the end will surely be nigh. For all of us. What a crazy fucking time in history. It's more important than ever that we get it right. I'm sure this only strengthens your resolve for Bush and for those of us on the other side of the aisle, I think it's pretty safe to say that it reinforces our belief that it is imperative to get Kerry in there. Our childrens' childrens' lives depend on it.

Aunt Bitchy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
free0352 said...

Jerhico Brown

What's worse is, to compound all that crap, Johnny Jihad beleives that since we are satan, and to not wage jihad on satan is a mortal sin, he will go to hell if he does not wage jihad. Let that sink in folks. "Hmmmm....hell or anything anyone has to offer. Yup, jihad it is." Thats the way they think.

So what I'm saying Jerhico is, you're coming around man, you're flirting with the dark side of the force (right wing thinking) Let me see if I can't draw you in a little closer. Luke, I am your father.

Now by reading this letter, you can begin to understand there is no barganing with this freek. You arn't going to shmooz these guys. The whole hell or jihad thing.

There will be no treaty, no cease fire. No happy ending. The idea that the united states creates terrorism through it's actions is silly. Uh, we listen to rock music and let women work, thats how we create terrorists. Umm, anybody feel like adopting the shira? Hey ALa, got a berka handy? Didn't think so.

Terrorism is like a tree. You can cut the outer branches and leaves all day. "I'll kill terrorist wherever they are," sound familiar? To kill it forever, you have to get the root. Kill the root, the tree dies.

Islam really is a religion of peace. Beleive it. There are billions of muslems in the world, and a paltry few million are jihadists, a few hundred are Al'Queda. A very small percentage of wakos. Kind of like militant omish with ak-47's and suicide belts.

The other half of the enemy lives in Iran and Syria, the Pan Arab Nationalist. They are comparitively easy to deal with, becase while they controll millions, there are only a few of the leaders. cut off the head, the body dies. While the Pan Arab Nationalist isn't a fundamentalist wako, he beleives that Arabs should controll the the Arab world (Middle East)and western ways can piss off. While he might not be a religious fanatic Islam is the only religion for him, he wants Arabs to live the Arab way, which for the last thousand years has been dictatorship. He hates Israel, and the US for it's aid of that country and our oil interest. Saddam was a good example of a Pan Arab Nationalist. What these scum do is fund and aid terrorism to further thier ends. Hence Syria suporting Islamic Jihad and the PLO. It is VERY safe to assume if they arn't actively aiding international terrorism, they soon will. His main goal is to aquire big ass weapons and take controll over the entire Arab world under one Muslem flag. The MASS MAJORITY of the middle east is suprise! US allies. Not a popular ally, but at the very least non-aggressive. Even Yemen is a US ally. Prior 9/11 the enemys of the US in the middle east were Iraq, Afganistan, syria and Iran. How many are left, notice a patern?

The genius of the Bush plan is this. If he can show the Arab world through Iraq and Afganistan that an Arab country can suceed in democracy, the rest might just go for it. A democratic middle east means a happy middle east (because democracy breeds economic, religious, and fundamental happyness) Terrorism cannot successfully exist in a democratic country with a second ammendment. Pure and simple. It kills the root of terrorism, by changing the thoughts of the young. I call this principle death by McDonalds.

The beleif of the radical muslem comes from this thought. "Once the Islamic world was the greatest, then Allah took it all away because we let Infidels exist, and now we must wage Jihad to get it back and apeese allah."

Now, if Middle eastern nations are rich with capitalism like Saudi Arabia, and free like Iraq is begining to be, they will be too happy to take that wack shit serious. They will begin to think something like the other democracys do. "Suicide, nah...PLAYSTATION!" The young will abandon radical islam and the ones who are left to wage jihad will be dead at the hands of their own countrymen. The youth will turn out like ours, they'll be too busy protesting against animal cruelty to care. Thier desire to eat doretos will exceed thier will to buy into fanatisism. Just ask the germans if this stratigy works. They certainly woun't be here. And the world will be a better, free-er place.

So why Iraq? Its a thumb in the eye of Islamic Fundamentalists. Every day we keep Iraq free, we show the poor oppressed masses of the middle east there is a way out. Straping a bomb to your chest and going to see a movie in Jerusalem or NY is not the key to paradise, a vote buys that paradise. Freedom is good, not a terrorist training camp and certain death. Basically a succesful Iraq destroys Osama's credability, he can't recruit, he can't exist. The Pan Arab Nationalist who wants to take over the middle east under a pan arab state dictatorshitp, well we just kill his ass and liberate his country. The President of Syria, the Ayatollas of Iran are quaking in thier turbans, because a free Iraq destabilizes thier dictatorship. And the 3rd Infantry Division is comeing.

The VAST majority of those fighting against us in Iraq arn't even from there. They come from all over the mid east because for the Iraqis to suceed, drives them one step back, a big fucking step. They lose credability, the americans arn't torturers and murderers and greedy thieving dogs out to steal oil. Naw, we're liberators. "Have some democracy, bye" This fact becoming known to the greater Muslem world scares the shit out of the fundamentalist, because it evaporates his ability to recruit. He can' exist.

John Kerry's stated goal is this plan is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time. He'll cut leaves, kill some terrorists. He'll kill a bunch because they will never go away. I want roots. Want some wood, vote Bush.

Jericho Brown said...

FREE: Listen, man, I completely respect where you're coming from but I think that in your argument you are taking some things for granted, foremost being that centuries of religious-centered oppression is just going to disappear when we give these people some pornography and a Playstation. It is not that easy. In order for democracy to truly take hold over there, there's going to have to be a concentrated effort on the parts of THEIR LEADERS to begin a Renaissance of their own. That's the only way secularism which leads to democracy can possibly hope to take hold. Otherwise it's just going to have to be a long and bloody battle. And when it comes to Bush or Kerry, I think Bush has already proven himself a shoddy-ass leader. He makes snap decisions that don't take into account all the possibilities, including how to actually "win the peace." Kerry is admittedly untried in this arena but then again, Bush had only 6 years of public service when he won the presidency. I just trust Kerry far more than I'll ever trust Bush. His administration has been caught lying far too often to trust him with the job of making sure there are no more 9/11s and that we attack the right targets at, yes, the right time.

ALa said...

Jericho....(think about this seriously) You said that you hated the hippies that were protesting the Bosnian (and I suspect Afghanistan) war. Would you trust our security to them? Kerry IS one of those hippies...not just a person protesting every once and a while...but was a member of VVAW...equivalent to the Black Panthers or ANSWER of today. He is worse though because he carried on the protesting against the troops throughout his Senate career and the impact could have been a lot worse (but thankfully even his own party thought he was too liberal) than a college kid carrying a sign. Kerry voted against the first Gulf War when Saddam had invaded a sovereign country and used WMD on his own people --there was a UN resolution FOR THE USE OF FORCE even before Bushie Sr. went to the Congress...AND they had a 'grand coalition' that he talks so much about now...and he STILL VOTED NO. He voted for a NUCLEAR FREEZE when Reagan was fighting the Cold War AND now he talks of giving nuclear material to Iran and stopping the bunker busters. Please think about this and all that you have heard from the military boys on this site --the ones that have been in battle --and finally about the implications of this letter. Does a hippie and war protestor that abandoned his own men have the stomach to fight the kind of war that this will take? Does he have the stomach to 'go it alone' without world approval if need be? I think we all know the answer to that.

free0352 said...

Ala-ditto to your post

Jerhico
Soon you will be one with the dark side.

Question- please list some of Bushes lies so I may refute the assumptions that they are such. -Nothing Michael Moore says counts :) -

One, Bush didn't rush into anything, we had 12 years of diplomacy. How many more would you have taken?

Two -Secularism isn't strictly required for democracy. Case in point, the United States of America. In 1776 the United States thought catholics were another species. We came around, so will they. We've only to plant the seed. also, the vast majority of thier leaders support our position. Download a map of the middle east and then realise that only two countries on it are now overtly hostile. Deplomacy and the example set by Iraq will do the trick on some of our less than democratic allys (like yemen) Saudi Arabia has a long way to go, but they are holding elections for the first time in years this January.

Three -Kerry is definately tried in this area. I woun't regurgitate Ala's most recent post. Let the voting record speek.

four- I don't think you have enough confidence in people. All men except tyrants deserve and want to live free. Iraq's sucess will provide all the Evidence to the Muslem world that is needed.

free0352 said...

Jerhico

Never ever underestimate the power of pornography.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

I think it's terribly sad that certain liberals will side with the Al Qaeda cause when Osama makes abundantly clear here that there is no room in his form of Islam for any of the things liberals hold most sacred regarding freedom FROM religion. I guess all it takes is a little lip-service to environmentalism and to shout the word "OIL" and the left just comes RALLYING to your cause like true believers.

Michael Moore says they're the "MINUTEMEN". What an ass.

ALa said...

Jericho:
Two follow-ups from past posts...

As for the free speech thing --now I must reverse the question to you...how can YOU possibly vote for a person that expels 8 seminary students from the Kerry rally yesturday in Salt Lake City (who were Catholic Democrats) who were wearing "sanctity of life" buttons?
-and-
Trying to block free speech by threatening Sinclair from broadcasting the anti-Kerry film --and then this!!!!!!!!!.....
"Kerry Senior Advisor Chad Clanton to SINCLAIR Broadcasting: 'They better hope we don't win' [said on FOX NEWS DAYSIDE]..."

Don't let your hatred of Bush blind you to the truth about Kerry....

And second:
and as for retarded people having kids...
Yes, i believe in small govenment (but in a conservative not libertarian way), but I also love children more than anything (born & unborn) and I don't think it's fair to them. Suffice it to say (without getting me in trouble if someone I know reads this) that I know PERSONALLY about this. About forgotten doctors appointments -no childhood vaccines -slovenly living situation ---you know full well how hard it is to raise a child and some are not mentally capable of doing such and the child should NEVER suffer because someone had a whim that they have the same right as everyone else. I know it sounds cruel --but it's the honest-to-God truth...and anyone that puts away the PCness will have to admitt it.

OK there were three...I didn't say that Prison shouldn't have any rehabilitation -just that people seem to forget that it is a punishment. If someone (GOD FORBID) did something terrible to one of my kids -I would hate to know that my tax dollars were paying for them to watch Sex and the City on digital cable and play on-line scrabble and such... It shouldn't have ammenities that some un-incarcerated Americans don't even have. That's all I was saying.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

JB,
"In order for democracy to truly take hold over there, there's going to have to be a concentrated effort on the parts of THEIR LEADERS to begin a Renaissance of their own. That's the only way secularism which leads to democracy can possibly hope to take hold."

I think it's crucial to demonstrate in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan that a separation of religion and state is NOT necessarily oppression against Islam as a religion. Freedom FROM religion can also be freedom OF religion--the right to wear the Hijab if women want to; to go Haj or to eat Halal meats, that sort of thing. Demonstrate that and advertise that, that we are not oppressing against Islam or Muslim practice. What we are doing is preventing them from being able to initiate force against others to make OTHERS practice it. Moqtada al Sadr learned that the hard way, and others will too. Zarqawi's #2 is now vapor and wondering where all the virgins went, because he refused to learn it.

It's also imperative to demonstrate in those two places that Bin Laden's idea of Jihad does NOT WORK. If we leave the way gutless Kerry will probably have us do, that's it, game over, that shows Arabs and Muslims everywhere that Allah was on Bin Laden's side after all.

We need to take this word, "Taghut" and start applying it to everything they call "Jihad". It's their term for wars that are contrary to Jihad. Al Qaeda is not Islam. Beheadings are not Islam. They are Taghut.

When that Muslim doctor showed our Special Ops people where to find Jessica Lynch, ***THAT*** was Islam.

First we have to believe that, and then we have to make the Muslim world believe that.

If we buy into the Osama claim that he speaks for Islam, then we really will end up on a road to a war of annihilation, and we'll probably have no choice but to take it nuclear and to slaughter millions of them just to keep from being slaughtered ourselves. Don't make them make US kill them all. Segregate Islam from what they are doing.

"all the possibilities, including how to actually 'win the peace.' Kerry is admittedly untried in this arena"

He's tried alright. He has demonstrated, especially in 1971, that at any given time, he is as likely to call OUR people the enemy, as the real enemy. With a "leader" like him, just about every move on his part will be friendly fire. He's already savaged Poland, Pakistan, Hamid Karzai, and the Allawi government, and he's not even in office yet.

Jericho Brown said...

What you guys are doing is valiant and everything, trying to get me to join the dark side, but "I'll never join you!" While we obviously agree on a lot of the same points, my allegiance has been and will always be, on the side of truth. Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to lie with either Republicans or Democrats. Until this year I wasn't registered with either party. I'm sure you can guess which side I'm on now.
The thing is, all the negative things you say about Kerry are based on conjecture. I've already said in previous postings that I applauded his actions after he was HONORABLY discharged from the service. He was right to condemn the actions he condemned in Viet Nam. In fact, he'd be a better candidate if he was he more like the person he was then, morally moved and less so politically, which is probably where much of the flip-flopping accusations have taken hold.

What we've got here...is failure to communicate (quick: what movie is that from?). You guys see everything in black and white and it just isn't that way. And I've come to realize that I'm never going to change that about you, Lefty isn't, TWD isn't, Rab, Paul(ha ha), Cheeky. This is where the inherent frustration lies for me with all of this blogging. Unlike TWD, I don't like talking just to hear the wind blow (no offense TWD, but you're a long-winded sombitch). I like to get shit done. That's one of the only things I can relate to in Bush the man. But that's also one of the reasons I know I'd make a shitty president. But just think, all the well-connected do-nothings in the country can now have hope that they'll one day be commander-in-chief. It's fucking staggering, really.

I'm not saying that you guys don't have valid hypotheses on how Democracy can be achieved in the Mid-East. I just think you're being far more optimistic than the situation warrants. Hanging a "Mission Accomplished" banner on the deck of an air-craft carrier and wearing a cod-piece-injected flight suit far sooner than should be considered appropriate. What it comes down to for me is that the Republicans, beginning with Gingrich in the 90s, when I really started following politics, through the sham that was Clinton's persecution, up to the stealing of the last election and through the semi-retarded, arrogant presidency of W., are willing to go to the lowest depths, disregard all that is right and truthful for the sake of maintaining power and giving more powerful to the already empowered, leaving the disenfranchised much more so. This is the legacy of every Republican and I could NEVER vote for a one of them as long as this remained their M.O.

And Free, I NEVER underestimate the power of naked women (see my blog). Here's to hoping we all make the right decision and the will of the MAJORITY of the country is inacted this Nov. 2. And most importantly that that decision is the right decision in the long run.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Jericho Brown,

"my allegiance has been and will always be, on the side of truth."

So you've abandoned all that Kerry nonsense? ;)

"Unfortunately, this doesn't appear to lie with either Republicans or Democrats."

Well. I think we can nuance that a bit. I would say that there is a bare naked truth, but seen from a left side it looks one way, and seen from a right side it looks different. It's just that the vantage point from which liberals are doing the looking, looks ticklishly close to how the U.S.S.R. used to look at it, back in the day.

"all the negative things you say about Kerry are based on conjecture."

1971 is not conjecture. His back-stab of Vietnam veterans was a true back-stab. And he has 20 long years of non-conjecture in his record, for you guys to continue to run away from.

"He was right to condemn the actions he condemned in Viet Nam."

He collaborated with the enemy. He BECAME the enemy, "fighting" for their side on American soil. And he considered OUR side to be HIS enemy. You can't sugar-coat that, nor can you spin it. If Vietnam were World War II, he'd have been Tokyo Rose. But his slanderous, mendacious, hateful, vapid words were all the more damaging because he had the temerity to wear a uniform while saying them.

"like the person he was then, morally moved"

More like bowel-moved. Some kind of creature from the depths of a septic tank, arriving in Washington, D.C. to stink up the place and spread disease.

"What we've got here...is failure to communicate (quick: what movie is that from?)."

Cool Hand Luke, of course. Kerry wouldn't know that one. But you think he's a "regular guy" and "so not out of touch".

"You guys see everything in black and white and it just isn't that way."

Both sides here are seeing black and white. Our black is your white and your black is our white. You think back-stabbing POWs so they can get tortured more, is a "moral" thing. I think it's disgusting.

"Unlike TWD, I don't like talking just to hear the wind blow"

*smirk*

*grin*

"I like to get shit done."

With your idea of what you think is "moral", I sincerely hope you don't get it done, whatever nefarious plans you have for us. What's next on your agenda after smearing Vietnam veterans, torturing puppies?

"I just think you're being far more optimistic than the situation warrants."

I think scenes likethis make me optimistic. And seeing as it's a real scene, that makes it realistic at the same time as it's optimistic. Not all of reality warrants pessimism.

"Hanging a 'Mission Accomplished' banner on the deck of an air-craft carrier"

Was to recognize the troops for having accomplished a MAJOR damn accomplishment. That you want to take that away from them, well, there goes more of your style of ersatz "morality".

"up to the stealing of the last election"

Baseless accusation with no evidence. Keep repeating the Big Lie. Won't make it true.

"disregard all that is right and truthful for the sake of maintaining power"

Yeah, Clinton was pretty good at that.

"I NEVER underestimate the power of naked women"

Evolutionary psychology acknowledges that power too.

;)

"Here's to hoping we all make the right decision and the will of the MAJORITY of the country is inacted this Nov. 2. And most importantly that that decision is the right decision in the long run."

Well, pessimistic as you are, we'll just see if your negative waves make your "moral" movement self-destruct on its own fallacious weight. There is Karma for pathological hatred, and maybe that of the liberals will come due sooner... or maybe later. We shall see.

Kat said...

JB...let me start my post by saying that I didn't vote for George. But I will now. Then let me talk about looking at Clinton for a second and morality and being a Democrat.

Mr. Clinton did some interesting things. He certainly tried to do the fiscal conservative route. He certainly went against certain factions and pushed for welfare reform. I supported Somalia, Bosnia and Serbia actions. I wish that we would have supported Rawanda. When he met with Arafat and Barak, I thought we were on the raod towards "peace in the middle east" and was excited. Even when he did the deal with North Korea, I thought that we were on to something. I thought we were really moving towards true global peace and economic growth in the world. When we signed the Iraq Liberation Act, I was excited because I thought we might finish the job when we hadn't in 91 even though I thought I understood why we hadn't.

I thought a lot of things, must I was mostly thinking about them through my view of the world. Relatively narrow and largely focused on my own little part of it. I dare say, "rose tinted glasses" was the best way to describe it.

But I remember one time that I was not impressed with Clinton and felt let down. The worst part was when I defended him. I can clearly remember standing in the lunch room at my office, defending Clinton against impeachment for having had an affair, as was my perspective. And, I remember later thinking that I had actually let down my own principles when I did it. Because, I consider myself a liberated woman. But I have certain moral standards. And here I had just defended a man who, not only cheated on his wife while the representative of my government (and I had voted for), but he cheated with a young woman, an intern, which was the epitome of the chauvinistic behavior I had always complained about. And I had defended him.

I know about that kind of behavior because I had a boss just like that. Fortunately, he knew I would kick him in the balls if he tried crap like that with me, but, unfortunately, there were others he could play upon. Young women who were impressionable and not sure what to do.

Now, don't get me wrong because I know Monica could have said no. But Bill should have said no first and foremost. Worse, I remember disregarding all of those earlier Paula Jones and Gennifer flowers stories as sour grapes and unimportant. They were important because they showed the character of the man. But I kept insisting that they were probably lies generated by the Republicans to discredit him. And he and the DNC were able to present just that and convince plenty of folks of the same.

After Monica, I had to really re-think that stand. I had to realize that even with all the things I thought he did good, he was not perfect and he deserved the attention that he got.

And from what you posted about the impeachment, I can tell that you are still thinking like I was back then. That it was about him having an affair. You talk of morality, but you totally missed the point of the impeachment. Even had it just been about the affair, he was sorely lacking in the morality that you would like to claim for the DNC. But, the impeachment wasn't about an affair. It was about two very important things that one must have and be when the President:

1) You want the truth? You can't handle the truth. He lied, under oath. "I did not have sex with THAT woman." What do you call the interaction of a phallus or phalic symbol with somebody else's orifices? Lying under oath is a serious offense. If Bush did this, you can bet that the DNC would be climbing all over it. You already accuse him of lying and misleading the country into war. How then can you defend someone who was proven to be a liar? That is the paradox of the Democrat party today.

2) He gave gifts and other perks to Monica worth a large sum of money and these were actually a transfer of gifts he received on behalf of the state (ie, US). We're not talking about boxes of candy here. We are talking about misdirecting assets of the United States for the favor of a blow job. This is clearly against the laws as well. At least the misdirection of assets.

Again, a pradox, because if Bush had done it, the DNC would be bashing him about the head with it and insisting on their own impeachment.

But, the worst thing that a President can do is to put the Presidency in jeapordy. Make it vulnerable to blackmail. What if North Korea or China's agents had discovered the secret and then demanded favors in return for not exposing his secret? What if the person that he was fooling around with at some time is a spy or other agent? When he endangered the sanctity of the Presidency, he endangered us all.

That is the point of the impeachment. Not sex. Not blow jobs. Not cigars in the oval office.

Those are certainly bad enough, but we're talking about the head person that we elected. And I remember defending him and the person I was talking to asking me how I could do that when I should feel like kicking him in the balls. I gave up my principles right then.

And that is what the DNC did, too. You are now, because some how, I don't believe you think that cheating is ok and lying is ok. But you want to defend him because he did some other things you agreed with so, his lying and cheating must now be explained away with claims of the other party being duplicitous.

Why would you give away your morals for politics and then try to claim that you are voting for the DNC candidate because of morals?

I'm not trying to bash you, I just think maybe that deserves a second look.

And frankly, in retrospect, even though I understand what the impeachment was for, I am glad it did not go through because it would have left Al Gore in charge. Now don't get me wrong, I thought Al had some good ideas about streamlining government and such, but he did not strike me as a leader so much as a right hand kind of guy. The one that knows how to run some of your projects and get them done. Not keep the country together. And he didn't strike me as an international diplomat either. He really couldn't talk much better than Bush and he was a stiff to boot. But I voted for him because, back then, I was a domestic issues voter and I was still liberal enough to believe that anti abortionists were nuts and the anti gay crowd needed to have the stick pulled out of their ass.

And, I still have some unresolved issues with that.

The foreign policy of neither group impressed me because I simply believed that we were long gone from that time when we had major wars and that treaties and economics were "conflict resolution". When we were towards a future that was bright and shiny and could cure the ills of the world with a few licks of our military and some humanitarian aid. I still believed.

But the rose colored glasses were ripped off my face and I had to look seriously at the rest of the world. Look beyond our borders. That is when reality set in. It's not a rosey world. People don't adhere to the treaties. They give excuses. They pay people to do proxy wars against us. We'd been at war with people that I had no idea we were at war with. It simply never crossed my mind.

Now we want to talk about lying liars and the lies they tell.

I'll agree with one thing that you said. There is no party that doesn't try to spin things their way, but I absolutely am dumbfounded that you would think the DNC is any better than the RNC. Any more moral. With any less lies.

The other night, Edwards is debating Cheney and he said an out and out lie. I mean, a verifiable lie. That lie was that the 50% of African Americans and Hispanics drop out of school. I almost fell over. Do you need the website to check these numbers to know this is a lie? I mean blatant? go to National Centers for Education Statistics African American (google that) and find out for yourself.

And talking about fearmongering that some like to point out, this is the worst sort of racial fearmongering I've seen in a long time. That includes things like black voters being intimidated at the polls. I vote and have never seen that. I mean never. Half the people running the polls in my neighborhood were black in 2000 with at least 2 Hispanic ladies checking the ID cards.

That's fearmongering on the racial scale.

If you choose to believe that our elections were stolen in 2000, you go on and do so. even flying my DNC colors, I was willing to accept the election outcome because it was declared over by the Supreme Court, which is liberal in make up by at least 6 seats. They were clinton appointees on the bench. I also understand the difference between majority votes and electoral college because they taught me that in high school.

So, if you want to vote the DNC on belief of their policies, go ahead. But I think it is best to refrain from announcing this vote on the bases of some sort of morality that we both know does not exist accept in your's and my mind.

Bigandmean said...

Kat,
I agree completely with your comments about Bill Clinton and think he and those who continue to defend him should be ashamed of their conduct.

I know what it's like to be in a position of authority like Clinton was, and have a young woman maybe half your age be openly flirtatious towards you. It can be flattering and be a boast to the ego. The position of influence and authorty, coupled with a young person's inexperience and naivete may make it easy to take advantage of the situation if one is so inclined. But the decisions one makes in situations such as that can be a true reflection of his moral fiber and that goes to the very heart of his ability to lead.

When asked why he engaged in such immoral conduct, in of all places the oval office (nee' oral office) he said "I did it because I could". A man of true integrity refuses to do such things, even though he knows he can and even though he believes that he won't get caught. He refuses to give in to the temptation because his relationship with his wife, his children, his God and his view of himself mean more to him than the satisfaction of one more sexual conquest.

What would Washington, Lincoln or Reagan have done? I believe they would have politely but firmly declined and would have done so in a way to save the young woman from humiliation and embarrassment. I'd like to think they'd do what I did and not what Clinton did. I think they might have pretended they didn't understand her intentions because to do otherwise would have needlessly embarrassed her, then made an endearing comment about their wives to show without question where their loyalies lie, shown her a picture of their children to seal the deal, then politely ushered her to the door.

I truly believe that it's not the sex that a man like Clinton is interested in but the conquest and the thrill of having fooled others and gotten away with it. If it was "only" sex, he could have succeeded in ways that were not so spectacularly blatant and careless. His decision showed him to be a user of others, a manipulating, insecure man with little or no loyalty to his family and no sense of personal responsibility.

Clinton has more talent as an academician, speaker and politian than I, but I am proud to say that in one respect I am far superior.

Kevin F said...

You read Osama Bin Laden's letter that starts this post out and you end up at the bottom with Clinton's blow job in the oval office with Kerry's serious lack of everything being served up in the middle.

I think with most of these blogs you see on the web you could quit your job and blog 18 hours a day, 7 days a week and you would end up like the FBI - backlogged with years of surveillance in need of translation.

I read Osama Bin Laden's letter to America (did he just stick it in an envelope with the word America on it and drop it in a mailbox?) and I have also read some of Bin Laden's other stuff. Bin Laden’s interview with John Miller is interesting. I recommend reading Peter Bergen’s book Holy War, Inc if you have not read it.

I think that one problem in the war on terror is that the majority of the American people
(porn and Burger King be upon them) dismiss Bin Laden as just being a wacko that needs to be hunted down and killed.

I think that this is far from the case. I would say that Bin Laden is out of his mind, but that does not mean that can has to be the only thing that defines him. I think Bin Laden is a vocal representative of his group of people and that what he says should serve as a guide to what the world needs in fight the war on terror. I think that in order to fight an enemy you need to understand that enemy and Bin Laden's comments are a tool to that purpose.

I think that while America (porn and BK be upon them) is actively pursuing a military war on terror there needs to be a fully involved political war on terror also. do not think that there will ever be any type of light at the end of tunnel in this war until the intifada between Palestine and Israel is resolved, and it has to be a resolution that both sides accept. I think that the world, not only the US (porn and BK be upon us) needs to work to this goal no matter what and it is the role of the United States(porn and BK be upon them) to kick the rest of the world in the ass to make sure that this is done.

Weeds re-grow in the garden because you did not remove the root and without addressing the grievances of the Muslims who have answered the call of Jihad against the West you are pulling the weed but not getting the root. When you eliminate one of those who was chosen to martyr himself to Allah, another one (or two) will pop up in his place.

Kat said...

Kevin...I have read all of the Osama documents, Zarqawi letters, their manual, too.

I agree with everything you said accept I would like to add an addendum.

While I believe whole heartedly that there must be a resolution to Palestine/Israel, because I believe this will separate them even further from some of the more "enlightened" Arabs and Muslims, I think there is one small point that you are missing. (or maybe not and just didn't articulate it).

That missing point is Osama's own words and the teaching of the salafi/wahhabi which is that Islam is the only religion and must be inflicted on everyone. That, no matter what happens in Palestine/Israel, they will continue to believe we are decadent and the cause of the downfall of their culture.

I also believe, like Hitler and Stalin, that Osama has determined what he believes is his world vision of a properly disciplined, religiously governed world. Not just his world, but ours as well. I believe that the wahhabi will not be satisfied with just torturing their own followers but will continue to attack us, as he says, because we represent "freedom".

I don't say that in the simplistic way that the president represented that to us. I read Tammiyya and Qutb. Osama's base of belief comes from these two. They believe with all their hearts and minds that the freedom allowed in the west causes people to be exposed to sinful temptations and makes them leave the righteous path. In their version, they take away these freedoms and instill a discipline that keeps these temptations from even crossing your path.

unlike the belief in Jesus who was tempted and overcame those temptations, thus proving he was honorable, they believe that you should not be even exposed to such temptations. Thus, why SA and other Arab/muslim cultures are so strict.

So...the settlement of Israel and Palestine would benefit us in taking away one more bludgeon, but it would not stop Osama and their ilk. We must be gone from this earth or clearly subjugated before they will feel their mission is ended.

Unfortunately, the salafi/wahhabi are the first to deny that Israel has any right to exist at all, as per his letter. since that will never happen, they will never be satisfied.

But, I agree that it must be cut off at it's roots and I think we must resolve iraq and Iran and Syria and then turn our eye on the remaining despotic terrorist supporting regime in the region: Sa.

Just my take.

free0352 said...

With serious Syrian support of the PLO and other terrorist orgainisations, there will never be peace in Israel, hence not peace in the Middle East. That is why I've been screaming for reigim change there. Once Iran and Syria are gone, we can work on OUR allies who support those fuckers (Saudi Arabia) and cut off the funding and moral support of the Palistinian Terror factions. With a new govenment in Syria, now longstanding Egyption cooperation, and a suddenly willing Jordan, this shit could get figured out to everyone's liking pretty quick. We need to get there first before there is EVER a prayer of fixing that mess. Both sides of that conflict want VICTORY and NOT peace. Only cuting one off at the knees will work longterm. We cut by removing moral support the palastinians have had for a long time. We can easyly regin in Israel at that point, especially if they see we're doing the work to get the Palistinian's there own state.

free0352 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
free0352 said...

Noteable quotes from the man who was no immediate threat. Take that into context with Osama’s letter and remember that he was classified as a minor threat until September 12th, 2001.



“When the enemy starts a large-scale battle, he must realize that the battle between us will be open wherever there is sky, land and water in the entire world. ... There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Well, give us time and the necessary means, and we will produce any weapon they want, and then we will invite them to come and destroy them.”

“Yours is a society which cannot accept 10,000 dead in one battle. God is on our side, and Satan is on the side of the United States. Allah is on our side. That is why we will beat the aggressor.”

“We will chase [Americans] to every corner at all times. No high tower of steel will protect them against the fire of truth."
Saddam Hussein, Baghdad Radio, February 8, 1991

"[ America ] will not be excluded from the operations and explosions of the Arab and Muslim mujahidin and all the honest strugglers in the world."
Iraq News Agency, January 30, 1991

“What remains for Bush and his accomplices in crime is to understand that they are personally responsible for their crime. The Iraqi people will pursue them for this crime, even if they leave office and disappear into oblivion. There is no doubt they will understand what we mean if they know what revenge means to the Arabs."
Baghdad Radio, February 6, 1991

"Does [ America ] realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?" Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994

"[W]hen peoples reach the verge of collective death, they will be able to spread death to all..." Al-Jumhuriyah, October 4, 1994

“Our striking arm will reach [ America , Britain and Saudi Arabia ] before they know what hit them."
Al-Qadisiyah, October 6, 1994

One chemical weapon fired in a moment of despair could cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands." Al-Quds al-Arabi, October 12, 1994

"[The U.S. ] should send more coffins to Saudi Arabia , because no one can guess what the future has in store."
Saddam Hussein, Iraqi Radio, June 27, 1996

“If [other Arab nations] persist on pursuing their wrongful path, then we should -- or rather we must -- place the swords of jihad on their necks..."
Saddam Hussein, January 5, 1999

“Oh sons of Arabs and the Arab Gulf , rebel against the foreigner...Take revenge for your dignity, holy places, security, interests and exalted values."
Saddam Hussein, January 5, 1999

"What is required now is to deal strong blows to U.S. and British interests. These blows should be strong enough to make them feel that their interests are indeed threatened not only by words but also in deeds."
Al-Qadisiyah, February 27, 1999

"[Iraqis] should intensify struggle and jihad in all fields and by all means..."
Iraq TV, October 22, 2000

“The real perpetrators [of September 11] are within the collapsed buildings."
Alif-Ba, September 11, 2002

“If the attacks of September 11 cost the lives of 3,000 civilians, how much will the size of losses in 50 states within 100 cities if it were attacked in the same way in which New York and Washington were? What would happen if hundreds of planes attacked American cities?"
Al-Rafidayn, September 11, 2002

“I]t is possible to turn to biological attack, where a small can, not bigger than the size of a hand, can be used to release viruses that affect everything..." Babil, September 20, 2001


“Wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time.”
John Kerry, September 2004

Kevin F said...

Kat you have read alot more than I have.

I believe that there are several types of believers in the Islamic world. Not all Muslims want to practice the strict and restrictive wahhabism.

I think that you are also starting to see a fairly new "group" of Muslims emerge. This group is the most important in my mind. They are Muslims that follow the Qu'ran but also recognize that for Islam to grow they need to move ahead instead of backwards. I think that they realize that there needs to be a balance of the Qu'ran and the modern world. I think that they are beginning to recognize that they are being left behind and that this is not good for Islam and that they need to move ahead and that the only way to accomplish this is to form a working relationship with the West so they can get a chair at the table.

I was particularly happy to see a new racetrack built in Qatar in and an effort to bring in multinational events there. They had their first MotoGP race there a couple of weeks ago and I believe that they are trying to get a Formula One race there also. I take this as a positive sign that not only can change occur but also a sign that those in power are beginning to recognize the need for change.

And when I say change I am not talking about becoming like the West because it is better. I am speaking about a change in the whole attitude in the region where the West is not viewed as an enemy and a population that becomes more informed with the entire world and not just the Islam, Islam, Islam that the children are brainwashed with in the madrassas.

How this fits with my comments on the dependency of the resolution of the intifada between Palestine and Israel is that there are different types of people in the Islamic world but they are all united by a dislike (not hatred in all cases) of the US support of Israel. I have spoken with my Middle Eastern friends on this and they say that what is going on there is terrible and that they feel that the United States does side against Islam while turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed by Israel. I think that both sides are guilty in this situation and it serves no purpose to point the finger at one group. To move forward the past has to stay in the past.

This mindset is a major recruiting tool for groups such as Al Qaeda, Ansar al Islam, etc. That is why I say that the resolution of the intifada must be made THE top priority in the war on terror or all we are just doing is driving around in circles. I think the only way that a resolution will come about is for the whole world to sit down together and apply force to both sides to hammer a resolution out. And any resolution that is made must be fair to both sides. I am not saying that both sides have to like it but it has to be done so that neither side can say that they were treated unfairly. This is extremely hard to do, but welcome to the war on terror.

You cannot fight a war on terrorism by only pursuing it with a gun. You need to identify the causes and address them also. President Bush tried to do this with the roadmap but failed. I cannot stress enough that this (the resolution in general, not necessarily President Bush’s plan) is something that needs to be forcefully worked out.

I think that Bin Laden dreams of entire Islamic planet, but I do not think that he is that foolish that he expects it to actually happen. I think the he accepts an isolationist type scenario as a more attainable goal.

Jericho Brown said...

ALa: Show me evidence that Kerry expelled the seminary students, then I’ll address the issue. That’s one of the things that bothers me about you guys. I show you EVIDENCE of Bush thugs preventing Americans from coming to their rallies and instead of trying to rationally defend such Gestapo tactics, you try to find a similar offense on the other side, which, even if it did happen, was surely an isolated event, whereas with Bush it is part and parcel of their ethos. They’ve been doing it all election season. Oh, and I noticed no phone calls from you…is that an admonition of your fear of an actual confrontation?

As for saying you don’t think inmates should watch digital cable or have internet access, I don’t get how that has anything to do with prison’s main purpose with rehabbing people who, for the most part will be rejoining our society. Rehabbing obviously has nothing to do with such privileges and they therefore shouldn’t even enter into the conversation. It’s two different issues.

SMOKER: I agree with the parts of your post that begins with : “I think it's crucial to demonstrate in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan that a separation of religion and state is NOT necessarily oppression against Islam as a religion….” and ends with: “If we buy into the Osama claim that he speaks for Islam, then we really will end up on a road to a war of annihilation…” This is an optimistic outlook, of course, and teeters on the hope that these people are indeed convincible. But I agree that it’s the only way to proceed there now that there is no other choice but to fight on.

However, I disagree with you (surprise!) that Kerry screwed over POWs by condemning atrocities that took place in Nam. It will NEVER be wrong to take a stance against wrong-doers, even if those wrong-doers are your own people. You will never convince me otherwise. Was Michael J. Fox’s character wrong in Casualties of War? If your answer is yes then we have nothing left to talk about.

KAT: Just because you are a woman who defended a sitting president who received a blow-job in the oval office does NOT mean you were deceived. You were right to defend him. While what he did violated the vows of his marriage, the overriding point of the entire Starr “Independent” Council was that it was an abuse of power and a waste of tax-payer money that funded what amounted to no more than a witch of a sitting president. If that isn’t a distraction from his duties then I don’t know what is. Are you honestly trying to convince me that a ten-minute blowjob was more distracting than a six-year investigation on Clinton regarding everything from Whitewater (exonerated) to drug-dealing (exonerated) to murder (exonerated) to, finally, whether or not he had consensual sexual relations with someone (got him lying about it under oath, HIT!). The point is, after 90 million bucks were spent, and the majority of his eight years in office being hunted like a common criminal, he deserved a fucking blowjob. He wouldn’t be the first president who got blown by somebody that wasn’t his wife. He’s just the first one that had people from the other party putting endless amounts of money into bringing him down at any cost. And the end result of all that? Zip. He remained president, though admittedly far less effective than he could have been without the hunt. It’s unconscionable. It’s partisan witch-hunting and there is nothing you guys can say or do to dispute that. Because what it exposed was a FUNDAMENTAL difference between us and them (you). It really boils down to us caring about the disenfranchised and trying to pull everyone up with us, while you guys care primarily about yourselves. Give the tax-breaks to the corporations and let the happiness trickle down to the little people. You’re not gay so fuck anyone that is. It’s pathetic and when history is written (“I’m the guy makin’ history,” says Bush) a hundred years from now it will show how your people took a guy with a silver spoon in his mouth with no accomplishments to speak of and a hidden past and placed him in office with a cabal of string-pullers to forward your agenda of what you consider a better America that in the end only favors people just like you.

“Psalm 1 and Jeremiah present “the two ways”: the way of blessing for those who place their lives, their security, their hope in God, who follow God’s ways of justice, and the way of judgment for those who put their trust in themselves, in their own resources and who follow the way the Bible calls wicked—which generally means abusing the poor. We have choices. Two ways in which to walk. God’s path leads to the side of the poor. Hence, the justice or righteousness of a society (according to the Old
Testament) will be measured by how it cares for its poor.”

Tom said...

Bin Laden is your typical pisant, wanna be tinhorn dictator. His dream was to instigate a revolt of the braindead adherents of Islam in Pakistan, ride in on their shoulders as Khomeini did in Iran in the late 70s and get his hands on all those nukes. Things didn't work out that way. His Allah-be-praised bullshit is for the moronic "Arab street", that like him still cannot accept the fact the "infidels" have surpassed them in every respect - economically, culturally, intellectually - and that were it not for the West, they would still be goatherders wondering what that black shit was bubbling up from the sand. He (or the memory of him - personally, I think he's camel food right now) and those dummies who dream of conquering the world when they can't even figure out how indoor plumbing works suffer more embarassment with each democracy established in that part of the world. And if humiliation compels these guys to come out from their shitholes and mount attacks, fine. They make better targets.

I'm salivating over the news of al Quaeda operatives turning up dead around the world now that Israel is in on the hunt after the Sinai bombing. That will be something else for these barbarians to whine about.

Someone should have mailed a response to Bin Laden:

"Dear Osama:

Be nice and we'll show you how to make toilet paper."

free0352 said...

JB said
However, I disagree with you (surprise!) that Kerry screwed over POWs by condemning atrocities that took place in Nam. It will NEVER be wrong to take a stance against wrong-doers, even if those wrong-doers are your own people. You will never convince me otherwise. Was Michael J. Fox’s character wrong in Casualties of War? If your answer is yes then we have nothing left to talk about.

Our contention and the contention of the vast vast vast vast vast majority of Vietnam vetran's is that the closest thing John Kerry saw to a war crime was his personal visit to North Vietnam. I've seen the tape and heard what he said and so did you. It would be like some guy who fought in Iraq showing up six months from now and bleating that the entire war was a mirror of abu gareb and every GI was a war criminal. That's the impression Kerry made. I think he may have possibly seen some very minor, technical violations of the geneva convention, but war crimes? Fuck no. I don't beleive him. JB, I suggest you stroll on down to the VFW or the American Legion hall where you live and ask a vet what they think of Kerry's testimony before congress on that issue and weather or not they whitnessed the same level of criminality in country during the war. Ask that vet if Kerrys testemony incapsulated thier Vietnam experiance. No really, do exactly like I've said, see what happens. Maybe ask a few.

I hate talking about Clinton and his wang, but I'd never let you guys down and not throw in my two cents.

He...comitted...purgery. A crime with a maximum punishment of NINE years in prison. Why does he get to commit felonies and I don't? Don't launch into the symantics of weather or not it was a fair question. It's law, not common sense, and he broke the fucking law. Why does he get to do that and I don't JOS, I'm dieing to know?

free0352 said...

We'll get you JB, fight all you want. We get you all in the end. Some faster than others. Its like the old fat English guy of some repute said

"Those who were young and not liberal never had a heart, those whom are old and not conservative never had a brain."

Oh, question for you to answer if you would. Explain to me why I should provide money out of my hard won salery to be used for the health care of others? Please justify it, because your candidate is asking me to do this.

leftyjones said...

Ah...you silly right wingers! If i hear that quote about being "young and liberal" one more time I'm going to puke. Don't use a quote to make yourselves feel all cuddly and good about the fact that you're heartless and afraid.
I was a conservative when I was young...influenced by family and church......believed all the hype during the Reagan years but found as time passed that it didn't all add up. The more I looked at the party, its platform and its values....the more I became convinced that this was a party that cared purely for those that "have" in society and every single interest that they put forth is subject to that group, or as Dubya likes to say, "his base". The ironic thing is that while I am not religious as I used to be, I find that the Republicans cater to about 3 issues that Christians would care about and turn away from the whole "Sermon on the Mount" view that Jesus had. Yet they lay claim to most evangelicals because they are against gays, abortion and desperately want to pray in school.
I believe that as I grew and experienced life I craved having BOTH a heart and a brain and as a result...I walk just to the left of center.
I work hard, value those that do and do not expect to be handed anything. I do believe in giving people a hand up when the means are there......a hand up that demands work and accountability.
I believe in last chances and that you can go to far....I wouldn't forgive a murderer or a terrorist because of their rough childhood or someone who claimed to want assistance and then proved that all they really wanted was a handout.
I believe in equality, in equal funding for schools and for the right to live your life without government interference.
I do not believe in corportate welfare and I do not believe that a hand up means pulling people from the penthouse into their private helicopter waiting for them on their rooftop helipad.
I am on the side of business and especially small businesses but not on the side of giving them breaks or help at the expense of the middle or lower class that do not have equal "breaks" available to them.
I believe that morals or family values mean more than not wanting gays to marry or being against bad rap lyrics.
I believe that as a nation that has worked for much, earned much and been greatly blessed, that we are and will be measured by how the least among us live.
I am not talking about welfare.
I am talking about points of opportunity.

I do not believe that the rich are evil.
I aspire to be rich.
I'd just like to think that if I lived in a nation and under a system that provides me with the fundamentals of leading a productive and enjoyable life that I would be willing to pay my share. A share that does not imply socialism or that everyone lives off my back but a share that says, thank you America for helping me....here's a little bit back to help the next guy.
Not scurrying around trying to find ways to protect myself at the expense of those in the middle class.

I do not believe there needs to be a government program for everything.
I don't believe that money and moneyed interests should control everything either.

I don't believe that Democrats have the right answers for everything but I do believe that there is a little bit more "we" and a little bit less "me" on the left side.
Which is kinda funny because the only time I ever hear a Republican promoting unity is when they don't want a war criticized and when they don't want "class warfare" meaning, don't try to go after rich people's money.
They don't talk equality when it comes to economics, schools, government sponsored tax breaks or those who are working hard to climb the ladder.

Of course, you don't have to believe or care about any of this....but do me one favor.
Can it on the "young and liberal" quote

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Kevin F,

"I think that while America (porn and BK be upon them) is actively pursuing a military war on terror there needs to be a fully involved political war on terror also."

There's one going on, but like 9/10 America on the physical front, most Americans currently don't understand the degree to which the psychological and political warfare has already been waged against us. Some of us DO understand how the war of words works, and we fight. We fight until our fingers are raw from typing.

"until the intifada between Palestine and Israel is resolved, and it has to be a resolution that both sides accept."

There IS NO solution that both sides can accept. If Israel exists as a state on any of its current soil, Palestinians, with the support of Islam as a whole, will not accept peace under those terms.

The choice for America is:

1) Support Israel and fight a war of total annihilation against all of Islam (that is, the 99% that would unite with the Palestinians against an overt U.S./Israeli bloc).

2) Support the Palestinians and drive a wedge into the Islamic world where they have to choose between a nation that effectively rids them of Israelis, or a group that merely annoys them.

3) Become strictly neutral and allow both sides to think we are potentially against them, or potentially for them, which amounts to a double coin-toss of how it would end up.

The further information needed to resolve this riddle is just exactly how willing the non-militant, non-radical Muslims would be to unite with the U.S. against AQ, AFTER we help them get Israel off of Palestinian land. And after Afghanistan and Iraq are fully sovereign (with leaders elected by their people--as Afghanistan now currently has, and Iraq will have shortly).

Our track record will be solid: having worked with Afghans without destroying their Muslim faith; having worked with Iraqis similarly without destroying their Muslim faith; and if we add Palestinians to the mix, would AQ then be the odd man out in the Muslim world, or would they still adhere to AQ over us when it came down to brass tacks? If the answer is the former, we should support the Palestinians by seeking non-violent means to fully dismantle Israel and make it leave Arab lands. If the answer is the latter, end of discussion, we're in a war of annihilation and it's time we own up to the fact.

"President Bush tried to do this with the roadmap but failed."

Any "solution" which doesn't dissolve Israel as a political entity will "fail" because Palestinians and Arabs will reject it.

Jericho Brown,

"I show you EVIDENCE of Bush thugs preventing Americans from coming to their rallies and instead of trying to rationally defend such Gestapo tactics, you try to find a similar offense on the other side"

JB, dude, the reason both sides do it is because it's reasonable TO do it. Nobody wants to have THEIR rally disrupted like that. Nobody. How would you like to be sitting down with a coffee klatch of fellow liberals and have me come storming in screaming in your faces "DIE COMMUNIST SCUM!" all the time? Wouldn't that get annoying after a while?

"I disagree with you (surprise!) that Kerry screwed over POWs by condemning atrocities that took place in Nam"

Then you just plain disagree with reality. The POWs themselves tell of how Kerry's voice was a part of their torture sessions.

"It will NEVER be wrong to take a stance against wrong-doers"

And it will always be wrong to falsely accuse the entire American army as wrongdoers, with a broad brush, the way Kerry did, and still hasn't apologized for, NOR CORRECTED, ever since 1971. From the command structure on down to the footsoldier, Kerry accused, falsely, with no evidence, and caused great harm to come upon POWs as a result of it. He glibly spouted for free what many DIED for NOT CONFESSING TO in Vietnamese prison camps, because the charges were false.

If there is a REAL war crime, then yes, prosecute that. But to falsely accuse of war crimes in a blatant attempt (and a successful attempt, in the case of Vietnam), to kill the American war effort and propagandize on the enemy's behalf, guess what? That makes YOU the enemy. The enemy within.

KERRY is the enemy within. It is no less so than if he were a plant by the KGB back when the Cold War were going on; or today, if he were secretly working for Al Qaeda.

Jericho Brown said...

Free: You said "I think he may have possibly seen some very minor, technical violations of the geneva convention, but war crimes? Fuck no. I don't beleive him. Ask a vet what they think of Kerry's testimony before congress on that issue and weather or not they whitnessed the same level of criminality in country during the war. Ask that vet if Kerrys testemony incapsulated thier Vietnam experiance."

This is, with all due respect, a ridiculous argument. Even if the MAJORITY of vets never saw atrocities (and I HIGHLY doubt that is the case), it does not mean that a) they didn't happen or b)that Kerry didn't witness any. He had zero motivation for making the shit up. ZERO. All you service guys on here take it like some kind of personal slight and it soundssuspiciously to me just like the naysayers from Casualties of War. Look, we all know that war isn't pretty, that no one can be in that kind of situation and leave it the same way the went in. The shit twists your head around for life. But there are still standards that have got to be adhered to, even in combat situations. That's all there is to it. You guys weren't there. You don't know what Kerry saw. He has witnesses that confirm his accounts. I don't know if it's that you're trying to uphold some sacred code or what, but eventually you're going to have to admit, if only to yourselves, that war crimes are still fucking crimes.

You said: "He...comitted...purgery. A crime with a maximum punishment of NINE years in prison. Why does he get to commit felonies and I don't? Don't launch into the symantics of weather or not it was a fair question. It's law, not common sense, and he broke the fucking law. "

I agree with your assessment that he committed perjury, which is indeed a crime. That's not my argument. My argument is that he never should have been put in that situation in the first place. It was the final push by the Rabid Right to pin something on him and they realized, "Hey, if we can get him under oath and then ask him if he fucked around on his wife (which we have a smoking gun to PROVE), then we'll finally have him on perjury. All the other shit we tried to pin on him proved false, but I mean, what can the guy say when his wife and the whole country is watching to see if he screwed around with some intern half his age?" Well, FREE, what would you say? I know you love your wife, it says so on your profile. If you had some harlot just begging to licvk your balls and you had a fifteen minute window to do so and in a moment of passion DID so, would you tell your wife? If some asshole who had been trying to fuck you over for years then asked you if you'd done something that you considered none of his business would you have told him? You're lying if you say yes. And even if you're not lying, the point is that the "Independant" Council never should have had the power they had, or the leeway to do the things they did. A complete and utter malappropriation of funds, resources and everything that America stands for.

You say: "Those who were young and not liberal never had a heart, those whom are old and not conservative never had a brain."

This is a ridiculous adage. So does that mean you're heartless if you were never a liberal and if so, when you grow older you should lose your heart? What about elder people who are known for their hearts and are surely not "conservative" at least not in the sense of American Republicanism? Mother Theresa? Anybody over 25 who gives a fuck about people other than themselves. I always find it funny that Republicans turned the phrase "bleeding-heart liberal" into a negative. I'm proud that my heart bleeds. Makes me more human, as far as I'm concerned. And anyone who criticizes me for that can SUCK IT, cause yer all selfish pricks. And also not very Jesus-like.

You said: "Explain to me why I should provide money out of my hard won salery to be used for the health care of others? Please justify it, because your candidate is asking me to do this."

Again, if this is a foreighn concept to you, that we should try to help those less fortunate, especially on such a basic issue as health-care, then there's really no explaining it, is there? Are kids born poor any less entitled to being cared for by a doctor? Seriously? Kids ARE the main objective of Kerry's health plan. If that doesn't sell itself then...

Jericho Brown said...

LEFTY!!! Ditto every single FUCKING thing you just said. Hallelujah!!

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

leftyjones,

"Don't use a quote to make yourselves feel all cuddly and good about the fact that you're heartless and afraid."

Being liberal doesn't mean you have any shred of a "heart". It means you're willing to rob your neighbor at gunpoint to pay tribute to that gang of thugs on the corner sipping their malt liquor, plotting their next home invasion. In your desire to pay that tribute, it shows YOU to be the one who is "afraid".

"I became convinced that this was a party that cared purely for those that 'have' in society"

You're supposed to pass the joint after only two puffs, lefty. To be on the right side of history here is to care for those who DO, not necessarily those who "HAVE". That means small business as well as large. That means the blue collar worker who wants to keep more of his paycheck as well as a Bill Gates who keeps half of America employed (ungratefully it seems).

DO for yourself, and I as an economic conservative will help. Sit back and whine, and I'll give you (government) cheese to go with that whine, and precious little else.

"as Dubya likes to say, 'his base'."

I guess billionaires Goerge Soros, Therese "Shove It" Heinz, and John Kerry, didn't get the memo that they are his "base".

Disgusting Che Jaguaras. You know why they want tax increases? They know they can shelter their money. They know that for all the talk about "protecting the middle class", they can "nuance" their way out of it once they're in office. And the middle class and small business will still be hit with the bill of allegedly "only taxing the rich". Scamming creeps.

"I work hard, value those that do and do not expect to be handed anything."

Then you're not really as lefty as you claim. You seem to believe too much in personal responsibility to be a part of the hardcore of the leftist base. Maybe if you were a billionaire and started pontificating about how OTHERS should be taxed into the dirt while you shelter your trust fund away in the Caymans...

"I wouldn't forgive a murderer or a terrorist because of their rough childhood or someone who claimed to want assistance and then proved that all they really wanted was a handout."

My my my, you ARE rather right-wing after all! :P

"for the right to live your life without government interference."

Yep. Very nearly hard-CORE right-wing.

"I am on the side of business"

Probably even have a subscription to the Limbaugh Letter! :P

"I am not talking about welfare.
I am talking about points of opportunity."

Tax business to death and you reduce opportunity. Not too bright on your part.

"I do not believe that the rich are evil."

I believe the Che Jaguaras are, a.k.a. Limousine Liberals are evil, and they happen to be rich. Having money doesn't make George Soros any less the vermin he is.

Maybe ***I*** am the real "lefty" here! :P

"I do not believe there needs to be a government program for everything."

Egad. Do they even let you IN at the liberal meetings?

"They don't talk equality when it comes to economics"

When not everybody produces identical economic output, economic result cannot be fair and yet equal at the same time. It's impossible.

Lefty, your issues are not as broad as I previously thought, although some of them run pretty deep. As Kevin said a few posts up, what we need to do is find the "roots" of what makes you so horribly mistaken on just a few things, while managing to be relatively lucid on so many others.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

JB,
"it does not mean that a) they didn't happen"

In the THOUSANDS? Try again.

"or b)that Kerry didn't witness any."

He claims to have DONE them but you give your hero a pass on that.

"He had zero motivation for making the shit up. ZERO."

You're in denial. He was a war protester before going to Vietnam and he figured he'd go just to get a few arm scratches, get out, and then protest the war from a platform of having been there. He's disgusting and your defense of that scum makes you not too respectable yourself.

"All you service guys on here take it like some kind of personal slight"

I served with Vietnam veterans. He fucks with them, he fucks with me.

"and it soundssuspiciously to me just like the naysayers from Casualties of War."

You're pathetic. You're letting a MOVIE run your LIFE. When are you going to grow up?

"The shit twists your head around for life."

If you're a liberal and didn't have it on straight to begin with, maybe.

"But there are still standards that have got to be adhered to, even in combat situations."

You're acting like there weren't, which is a lie.

"You don't know what Kerry saw."

He didn't see "thousands" of U.S. soldiers committing war crimes. It was his perverse hatred of America that made him make up those stories and shove 'em down people's throats in Detroit. And it's your perverse hatred of America that makes you buy his lies, hook, line, and sinker.

But you know... hatred has Karma. And it only hurts the hater.

"Again, if this is a foreighn concept to you, that we should try to help those less fortunate, especially on such a basic issue as health-care, then there's really no explaining it, is there? Are kids born poor any less entitled to being cared for by a doctor? Seriously? Kids ARE the main objective of Kerry's health plan. If that doesn't sell itself then..."

Well isn't that a lovely little emotional appeal fallacy. Probably straight out of Morons.org. "If you don't vote Kerry, the pewr chilllllllllllllllllllllllldren will all staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarve to death." Smarmy smarmy smarmy pap. To quote the wise Tibetan monk in The Golden Child: You're breaking my heart, asswipe. Poor children aren't turned away today. They go to the E-room, they get their treatment, and we who pay private insurance get our premies raised to cover them. For the children, I don't mind that. And if the parents work and are still poor, I don't mind that either. If the parents are nothing but breeding machines and do nothing but whine, put the children in a more worthy home and STERILIZE those parents so they won't bring kids into a horrible environment like that anymore.

Jericho Brown said...

Cock SMOKER: You're an amoral son-of-a-bitch with no respect for your anyone that don't completely align with your pseudo-militant/inconsequential view of the world. Don't address me anymore in any way, shape, form or fashion. If I was around you in person I'd fuckin' CURB your ass. Those who show no respect for the lives of others deserve none themselves. Go find a broomstick and sodomize yourself with it. You're obviously not getting any other action

Aunt Bitchy said...

ALA: What happened to Lefty??? Jesus!

Cigarette Guy: You rock! Libs like to support "the crap" not help it transform from "crap" into something good.(Perpetuating the problem)
As long as it doesn't interrupt the white picket fences in their neighborhoods, they are all for giving hand-outs...(they probably never even saw goverment cheese)
They are more worried about being politically correct than making any sense. A world of walking on egg shells and kissing ass...sounds great!

Jericho: Was that last comment necessary? You are not helping your cause...