Sunday, October 03, 2004

MY LINKS…never generic.

Recently I have been surfing through the blogrolls of the ‘big boys’ out there…the ones that a conservative blogger would give her right arm to be acknowledged by: Anti-Idolitarian Rotweiler, IMAO, Scrappleface, Powerline, Little Green Footballs and Instapundit…the blogs that DRUDGE reads!) and have been pretty unimpressed by some of the blogs that are linked on their blogrolls. Most of the sites just cut and paste from other sources –but let's be honest, Drudge has already cornered that market (and quite successfully).

The links that I have decided to post on my page are sites that I truly read each day –and they are all there for a reason.
My personal favorite is Protein Wisdom, who is an absolute lunatic and one of the funniest people I have ever read. His writing is the embodiment of my bizarre sense of humor. On-going topics include various conversations with his Macintosh Apple, his deadbeat neighbor and his jeans. If you have not read Jeff –you have been missing one of the best the blogosphere has to offer.
Another funny blog is Straight White Guy who once wrote about a boil he had and hooked me from that day on. Eric is a great writer and a hilarious read.

Of course we have the vital right-wingers, who all add their own flair to the politically happenings each day. Jen at Fair haired, yet Strangely Unbalanced always manages to add an innocent comedic spin on even the harshest of news…you can almost hear her smile and slight Texas drawl in her words. There is Kat over at The Middle Ground who is the mad scientist of bloggers…her research and attention to detail is astounding and her perspective is unique (a pre-9/11 Democrat who has seen the light). I am constantly in awe of her. Over at Adeimantus you can find the musings of both Adeimantus and Tom for a balance of serious thoughts and biting satire. The crew over at The Glog Blog never disappoints readers with their bizarre stories and political musings. Frater Bovious heads the crew, but all contributors are worth the read! The proprietor of Passionate America, Wild Bill, is Glen Beck on crack. He is wildly steadfast in his beliefs …and lefties, have no fear-he won’t try to convert you. My newest discovery is RightWingSparkle‘cause if you’re a right-wing blonde ya gotta be cool! RWSparkle is another stay-at-home mom pundit…the best kind! Once considered an Independent blog –now upgraded to right-wing is Cigarette Smoking Man at Cancer World. Cig is an ex-punk, a veteran and an intellectual. His arguments are always sound and his experiences vast…and amazingly he doesn’t smoke. LOL…
I await the day that Jensdad aka BigandMean jumps into the fray!

Two other independents that are leaning Bush this year (smart men) are Phil at Another Man’s Meat (who recently wrote a 5 part piece on his experiences in the Air Force and his journey to faith that was amazing); and Riceburner147 who is new to the blogosphere –but off to a great start.

During these stressful pre-election days it is imperative to have an escape from the vitriol and find a bit of over-due levity and a place to ‘just be’. I use the following non-political blogs for that purpose…Of course my first stop is always to the Rowhouse to visit my best friend (since we were four)…JustRose. Rose has the ability to turn everyday monotony into a glorious journey…always bring tissues before a trip to the rowhouse –just in case. In this category my newest find is JP who runs Public Navel Gazing --I actually found this through the blogroll. JP has a wicked sense of humor and also turns daily occurrences into hilarious diatribes (Rated R). Last but not least, we have the twins…Punk Rock Mommy who is wading through the tasks of marriage and motherhood as an ex-rocker; and Desultory Butterfly who is writing her experiences as she searches for a place to land. Thanks girls…you all help me through my day!

*****Please do not think that I forgot one of my very favorite bloggers...Ms. Tammi at Road Warrior Survival. I am never quite sure where to put her (don't ya just love a girl you can't label!)as far as a concrete description. She has survived all the hurricanes and has a site from FL that boasts a plethora of topics...sometimes political musings, recipes, personal thoughts and great links.*****

In a category all of his own, we have Tescosuicide at the up and coming Blank Forever. He is an ex-punk struggling with getting older and balancing his new life with the memories from his past…I also have to read him because he’s my husband…LOL.

What started this entire journey into the blogosphere for me was the Milblogs…actually one in particular –CBFTW at My War. Through CB I was lucky enough to find 91 Ghost who is blogging through his past breathtakingly –Gulf War I style (I still believe he is really Michael Savage in disguise). A new soldier blog that I started reading when CB was AWOL from blogland is War, Beer & Boots. He has that gritty realness that attracted me to CB, but doesn’t blog as often. There is Free (who I wish had a blog but doesn’t) and Redleg writing from a US Military Base on A Redleg’s Perspective. I love and appreciate all the soldiers, but being from PA have to give special props to our boys who I keep track of over at Keystone Soldiers. There is great info on what the boys need and letters from many of them. My political nemesis and vet-turned-lawyer is This We’ll Defend –you can catch his well-worded and mis-guided political repartee at BuggieBoy. Our views on the election may differ greatly, but I get the feeling that TWD is the kind of guy that would always have your back. Thank you all for your service and your input at this site. I love hearing from all of you…the ones that have made it possible!

Yes, I am fair and balanced –so I host the lefties too. LeftyJones and Cheeky Monkey have recently dropped off the face of the sphere, but when they're around –they are always good for a heated debate. JFM and Jericho Brown at Hello! Cruel World are pretty damn far left –but both seem like good guys (or will after November 2nd). I hate to admit it, but I even enjoy reading the frothing rants of the writer Rab and Paul (also a vet)…and they are as left as they come, but always add a completely different perspective.

Anyway, these are the people that have become a part of my daily life. I have no generic blogroll that sits idly in my sidebar, but a list of people I have come to view as friends and whose opinions I respect. Thank you all for making the life of this wanna-be pundit stay-at-home mom a bit more exciting!




45 comments:

~Jen~ said...

This post was sooooo cool.

I've fallen in love with "protein wisdom". "Right Wing Sparkle" is really cool too. I really think we should start a sassy blonde republicans club.

I guess I do have a slight Texas drawl. I try to keep it under control. :) You should hear my Mom though. "Jen" sounds more like "Jan", and sometimes it has two syllables. hehehehe

Dad doesn't have an accent. Not real sure how that happened. :)

Jensdad said...

Ala,
I agree with Jen, this is nice post with lots of valuable and interesting links.

Thanks for the compliment about awaiting my entrance into the blogosphere but I plan on just remaining a minor contributor on Jen's blog for now. By the time I read the most recent posts of all my favorites and make one or two comments, then try to set aside 3 or 4 hours to read TWD's reply, I just don't have any time left.

Besides, You, Jen, Kat, Cig, Tom, Tesco, Desultory Butterfly, Justrose and several others say what I want to say with more eloquence than I could muster. The amount of research some of you do and the information you come up with is astounding. I'll leave the heavy lifting to you.

Jensdad aka Bigandmean

Desultory Girl said...

Thanks for the recognition, that makes me feel so good, I'm glad to be a part of your blogosphere. What an awesome post, and I get to be among all the other awesome bloggers, it's an honor. Your post today is the one stop shop.

BlogPapa, aka JensDad, but also know as the infamous BigandMean, I share the sentiments of others when they say you should start your own blog.

Desultory Girl said...

By the way, Free, no joke, needs to get a blog started sooner than later. He's thorough, direct, funny, and informative in his posts.

Paul G. said...

Thanks for the left handed compliment and mentioning my photoblog, my topic blog would be here.

If you think I'm as far left as they get, you don't get out much.
But then again if your view of a liberal is shaped by Alan Colmes(phoney milk toast wimp) of 'Hannity and Colmes', I could easily appear that way.
That is the danger of getting your worldview from the media, any media.

If you want lefties check out the Socialist Party or the Communist Party USA that's as left as it gets and you wont find me anywhere near them even if I were blinded and starving on a Marquette January night.
The same would go for these extremists, I left them behind when the 'Friends of Falwell' took the party over, and returned to the party of my sober youth.

Frater Bovious said...

Ala, thanks for the nod. I don't remember who I ran across first, or if I was following a link to see who came to visit my blog, but I am very glad to have met you and your coterie of bloggers via this very cool activity.

Thanks again. msc aka fb

Carter said...

Hey, give me a chance. I'm sure I could compete in the far left category. I want freedom. I want truth. I want a government more worried for it's citizens than it's personal goals. That's all it takes to be a liberal democratic left winger, right? Liberal..liberty? Democrat..ic...Hmmmm.

Anyways. Just wanted to let you know that the left wing is about to envelope me, and I'm not sure if I should resist.

Carter said...

Hey, give me a chance. I'm sure I could compete in the far left category. I want freedom. I want truth. I want a government more worried for it's citizens than it's personal goals. That's all it takes to be a liberal democratic left winger, right? Liberal..liberty? Democrat..ic...Hmmmm.

Anyways. Just wanted to let you know that the left wing is about to envelope me, and I'm not sure if I should resist.

tescosuicide said...

Thanks for the sympathy vote. I'm still a punk I am old and I'm struggling with why I even comment on this blog!

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Carter, here's your left-winger test: would you threaten a New Jersey schoolteacher for displaying a photo of President Bush on a bulletin board next to other Presidents in American history?

If not, then you're not as "left" as you think.

Tom said...

CSM:

A true lefty is one who would threaten a public school teacher with suspension or termination for displaying a photo of President Bush on a bulletin board next to other Presidents in American history, but allow and even praise photographs of Malcolm X, Mao, Che, Ceasar Chavez, etc ...

riceburner147 said...

100% pro-life, 100% for more help for pregnant women w/o resources, pro Bush, 100% AGAINST death penalty, pro Guns ("Gun control is two firm hands on the grip"), Anti Patriot Act (parts of it), Anti big government, Gotta win in Iraq now that we are there, neo-libertarian, pro drug legalization. What label could possibly fit. (ah,ah,ah, be nice)
Ala, thanks for the kind words...

Paul G. said...

CSM,

Which President Bush, George HW, George W, or Jeb?
Just kidding, I know you mean GW.
If the time frame is on or after January 20th, 2001 then no problem displaying the picture, the President is the President.
I don't see the N.J. teacher issue as a right left issue, I see it as a stupid people issue, kind of like getting fired for having a campaign bumper sticker on your car in a factory parking lot.

cheeky monkey said...

Well I'm back. Certainly glad made it to the post... I was worried, given how far down we were. Nonetheless, happy to be recognized. And yes, Mr Jones and I have been overcome by other things these days-- somehow parenthood, work and school took over. And while it might pain some to hear it, they are more important than blog world!

I've actually noticed a lot of people being a little quiet on their little keyboards these days. Are we all tired? Could we all use a collective glass of wine, or whine?

Cheers!

cheeky monkey said...

Well I'm back. Certainly glad made it to the post... I was worried, given how far down we were. Nonetheless, happy to be recognized. And yes, Mr Jones and I have been overcome by other things these days-- somehow parenthood, work and school took over. And while it might pain some to hear it, they are more important than blog world!

I've actually noticed a lot of people being a little quiet on their little keyboards these days. Are we all tired? Could we all use a collective glass of wine, or whine?

Cheers!

cheeky monkey said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
AFSister said...

As the saying goes...First time commenter; long time reader. Now I know why I find your blog so darn interesting- many of your favs are mine too! I've been bugging Free for a while now about starting his own blog as soon as he returns to Iraq if not sooner.
I can't wait to check out all of the ones you listed that I've never visited. Had a question for you too: The other night you said that Kerry contradicted himself 9 times during the debate, and I was wondering if you had an actual list to refer to. My son broke out in hives really bad the night of the debate, resulting in a trip to Urgent Care. Ergo, I missed most of it. LOVED the link to the Ultimate John Kerry ad! Tooo funny, and sadly, tooo true!

Ron Brynaert said...

Thanks for the link. Mighty kind of you. I imagine you must've gotten a few hits from the link on my site. Other political blogs should do the same (i.e. link to the opposition).

Oh...and to join in the debate.

You people can't be serious. Isn't one of your major talking point issues the notion that too many liberal teachers are forcing their politics on the kids. Now that you found one that supports your side you think she's some kind of martyr (and to think that she belongs to those teachers unions that you love to demonize as well).

Personally, I don't have any problems with any teachers in this country putting a picture of the current president (or resident) on their wall (even if there aren't other pictures posted of other presidents...even if there are pictures of other presidents but none of Democratic ones).

But I don't think a picture of the President and his wife belongs on a classroom wall.

In the Post article, the teacher Shiba Pillai-Diaz claimed to not be partisan by posting the picture. But she also said "Basically, I'm being told to choose [between] my job and my principles." I don't believe that "my principles" referred to her right to put photographs on the wall. "My principles" obviously refers to her political beliefs (which she put into practice by volunteering at the RNC). According to a press release by the school superintendant: Students reported that she had made statements which denigrated one party over the other. The conversations included Ms. Pillai-Diaz telling some students who offered opinions contrary to her statements, that she was “glad they were not old enough to vote.” Other comments to students, including such statements as, “you should be ashamed to be a Democrat” have been verified through student interviews. In addition, she placed a stuffed elephant on a classroom cabinet, which generated student reaction and discussion about partisan politics. It is important to note that pictures of President Bush are openly displayed in all of the South Brunswick Schools.

And most importantly...I believe that if the parents of the children object then the teacher should comply.

Kat said...

Glad I'm up there, too. I've been thinking this last month I need to take time and blog roll everyone myself.

Plenty of folks I could point to and say "read this" or "read this at your own peril" (LOL)

Let me chime in on the School teacher issue. The school teacher was on O'Reilly last night. She is actually an english/literature teacher. The board had the following according to the interview:

1) A copy of the Declaration of Independence.
2) A copy of the bill of rights
3) A copy of some "revolution period" pamphelets
4) A paper with a copy of every president's signature
5) A copy of the constitution
6) A Picture of the current President and his wife

Now, her side of the story was that this board was to show historical writing. Discussions included things that happen during historical periods, what they mean now and what kind of writing today would be similar or synonymous with those historical documents.

According to the teacher, the picture of the President and his wife is what she had available to post at the time.

Hair splitting about whether the current President should be seen with his wife is kind of hair splitting don't you think? Does it really matter? What if somebody put up a picture of John Kennedy and Jackie, would that be inappropriate? If you say "no", tell me why? Because I agree, it is not inappropriate to display a picture of the President, past or future, with or without his wife.

In regards to her "principles". Her principle, according to the interview, was that this board was part of her class room teaching and she did not think it was right to take away her tools for teaching because SOMEONE ELSE thought it engendered partisan politics when that was not the point of the board.

In regards to remarks, she said that many students were approaching HER and asking her political questions, including things like "Do you support the President? I don't know how anyone can because he killed women and children in Iraq".

Her response was that he is the President and an important part of our history. She also indicated that she did not have further discussions with students because she is not a social studies teacher.

However, if I was her and I was being asked those kind of questions, I would be hard pressed not to say something to the students. Those kind of comments make you wonder about what people teach their children.

In regards to a stuffed elephant. That is kind of ridiculous, too. Did it say "republican" on it somewhere? Is a stuffed elephant more than a toy or a gift because the person supports one party or another and the shape of the toy is used as a political icon? What if it was given to her as a gift by a student and she wanted to display it? Is that wrong?

I think the PC world is starting to get stupid frankly. If people are worried about it, they should move to canada. I hear they have some interesting "hate speech" laws up there.

The last point, in regards to "collaboration" from other students. I can remember well certain teachers that many students didn't like in our school and how often rumors went around about them and how often and who were repeating them.

Now...I don't blame the principal for letting her go, because at this point, the problem is huge. But I do blame the principal for letting the problem get out of control. Because that is what led to this.

That and partisan politics on the part of parents and students.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Riceburner, I'm 100% with you except for the first two. On the life vs. choice issue, I say give a fetus until the onset of brain function to be safely and legally aborted, and if I had my 'druthers, I'd tax subsidize it as well. We don't need domestic population explosions in demographics most likely to become welfare burdens, so I'm more than willing to educate them on the primary benefits of contraception, and the secondary benefits of first-trimester abortion.

After that first trimester though, that's it. The fetus becomes a child, and there's no doing it harm after that. Full rights to it--you had your chance.

On resources to pregnant women without resources, I think it's an outstanding venture for charities and a not-so-outstanding public policy for a government. For similar reasons as I state my abortion idea, I don't want to subsidize population explosions.

I'm pro-Bush because in spite of his foibles, because I think Kerry would be disastrous to us in facing al Qaeda. One Kerry idea I like better than Bush's is to convert to hydrogen fuel and become independant of Saudi Arabia. That's going to become necessary eventually anyway, and if we do it sooner we get the benefit of greater leverage in that part of the world. But it's not enough juice to push the unrepentanly slanderous monster of 1971 in front of Bush, from a national security perspective. Maybe either a President McCain or a President Giuliani will do it in 2008.

I too am 100% against the death penalty. The one slight variation to that I'd use is that serial killers or people who victimize children should be sent into high-abduction-risk areas with chip implants, dressed as civilian contractors, and used as bait to find terrorist enclaves. If they survive that ordeal, release them in the middle of Iran with an Israeli passport. Captured terrorists would be good for this too, come to think of it.

I, too, believe in the 2nd Amendment, and I think it's unsettling that one should have to reiterate that that IS a part of the Bill of goddamned Rights.

I think the Patriot Act should get every bit of the Constitutional review that the judicial system is currently giving it. The parts that don't meet that Constitutional test, not only "should" be revoked, but WILL be. This is America, and that's what happens here in America; it's the way things work.

Regarding Big Government, I mainly just don't want it to be Handout Central. Yes, some corporate welfare plays into that, and some things need to be looked into there on the conservative side of things. But 5 million mini virtual Halliburton-lites sitting on front porches collecting welfare checks and planning which house they're going to rob next isn't any less deleterious to our nation than 5 Halliburton-like CEOs out in the defense contracting industry. And at least the latter provide jobs rather than court case congestion. All the madness of all the handouts on all sides, has got to stop. No-nonsense Defense, and no-nonsense public infrastructure.

Gotta win in Iraq now that we are there, sure, but only if doing that passes a Global Test. Whoops, I don't think that, that's Kerry who thinks that.

I'd probably vote Libertarian if it weren't for some of the government infrastructure programs that I support. My tolerance for government programs is a little too high to really qualify me for that party's membership anymore. BUT, on the social liberty issues, I'm pretty much straight down the line libertarian.

Paul,
"I don't see the N.J. teacher issue as a right left issue"

Perhaps you should read up on it. It's straight-up leftist oppression, no ifs, ands or buts about it. And it's nonsensical, because the picture wasn't displayed with slogans or commentary or any verbiage at all.

"I see it as a stupid people issue"

Well, YEAH... *ahem*...

It's also a lying issue, as Superintendant Gary McCartney is now denying that Pillai-Diaz was ever fired. A little too late to cover tracks there, Gestapo creeps.

Cheeky,
"Could we all use a collective glass of wine, or whine?"

I'm nursing a yogurt drink right now, m'self. Mighty tasty.

Rab,
"You people can't be serious. Isn't one of your major talking point issues the notion that too many liberal teachers are forcing their politics on the kids. Now that you found one that supports your side you think she's some kind of martyr"

I don't recall any red-state parents running a lefty teacher out of the school for including a photo of, say, Clinton, WITHOUT CAPTION OR COMMENTARY in a montage of historical artifacts on the freakin' WALL. I welcome your links and substantiation of your charges that that has ever happened. Thank you.

"(and to think that she belongs to those teachers unions that you love to demonize as well)."

A lot of good that "union" did her, eh? No protection whatsoever of her rights or working conditions. It's all lefty ideology, all the time, over there.

Here's your flip:
"Personally, I don't have any problems with any teachers in this country putting a picture of the current president (or resident) on their wall"

And now for your flop:
"But I don't think a picture of the President and his wife belongs on a classroom wall."

Do I have the honor of addressing John Kerry himself here, or are you merely a wannabe?

"And most importantly...I believe that if the parents of the children object then the teacher should comply."

So if a teacher in a red state says the Theory of Evolution has sound scientific basis and it generates an angry mob of Christian fundamentalists, she should just back down and teach what they demand she teach?

And how the hell do you KNOW what the context is, of any teacher ANYWHERE saying to a student, "I'm glad you're not old enough to vote"? I see many of my daughter's friends acting like idiots and I say the same thing to them, without any partisan political context whatsoever.

Kat,
"she said that many students were approaching HER and asking her political questions, including things like 'Do you support the President? I don't know how anyone can because he killed women and children in Iraq'."

Some of my daughter's idiot punkvoter type friends made a similar mistake with me. I asked them who they think was the greatest President of all time. The morons can usually only think of either Washington or Lincoln, or some will say FDR or LBJ (due to the "Great Society" welfare crap). For each of those, I list off the documented facts of the women and children they had killed (Tories, Southerners, Germans, Japanese, and Vietnamese). After they've been made fools of, they typically just grab their skateboards and leave, presumably to take another vacation from thinking.

"Those kind of comments make you wonder about what people teach their children."

There are some VERY bad parents out there. And with bad parents like that, it's impossible to ask schools to make their byproduct and effluent offspring any better than their upbringing. That's one bone I have to pick with Republican governors and all this "school measurement on test scores" nonsense. Schools only have those kids a PART of the day. Even if the schools aren't brain-destroying bastions of Berserkely Communist programming, the kids still go home to parents who are drug addicts, welfare slugs, wife-beaters, corrupt businessmen, the whole gamut of every stereotype played as a "bad guy" on a TV drama. So what message sinks in with the kid? It's a coin toss.

The bottom line remains that in the People's Republic of Corrupt-Ass Jersey, it's 1984, and schools are transformed into the ersatz "Ministry of Truth". It's no wonder the far left makes excuses for terrorists, as they essentially agree with their methodology.

Ron Brynaert said...

So she won't admit to putting a picture of Dubya's dog on the board either?

Ha...ha...you people with the flip-flop floppery. I didn't flip-flop. I think there's a difference between posting a picture of the president and one that also shows his wife. And it wouldn't matter if the wife was Jackie O or HRC. It has no business being on a classroom wall. I don't have to spell it out for you. You should understand the difference yourself.

As far as the other "flop" you say I made. Excuse me, but I think that it's the children that matter the most. And I think that their parents opinions matter, as well. Personally, I think a picture of the Prez is okay...but not if it causes turmoil in the classroom. Come on...enough with the flip-flop nonsense. You would think that John Edwards referred to Kerry's economic plan as voodoo economics before signing on to it...whoops....that's a flip-flop before flip-flops became a talking point.

Was the teacher fired? Not that I'm aware of...but I'll look into it.

Plenty of religious right groups have complained about evolution in the classrooms...and text books have been edited to include faith-based science fiction disguised as science.

I don't need to google anything to point out that the right wing constantly rails against liberal elitism in the classroom. Ever heard of Daniel Pipes or Campus Watch (you should link to them, ala, their site is just as repulsive as Malkins and Coulter's.

Man...some of you people can't ever concede anything. You have to admit that there is a whiff of hypocracy about this issue. The same way the GOP, which claims to be for states rights, argued against it in the 2000 supreme court Bush vs. Gore. The same way Kerry made a mistake by blasting Bush for moving our troops from Korea and Europe after he spoke similiarly. See...I am fair enough to admit when my side goofs.

I think it's time to find a new angle. Flip-flops belong on feet. It's time you start defending the Bush record instead of resorting to childish nonsense.

ALa said...

Honestly and in all seriousness...I can't remember being in an elementary class that didn't have the President's picture...now I realize that was the late 70's and early 80's --but come on people. The bulliten board had the Constitution, past Presidents signatures and a picture of the current President and first Lady. This shouldn't be an issue. He IS the President.
Justice has and "All About Me" poster due Thursday and we put pictures of Abe Lincoln, Ronald Reagan and George Bush REAL big on the poster (saying "I like learning about Presidents)...I was going to throw FDR in there -but I didn't...I'll keep you updated if my son's porject needs to be removed from the Kindergarten walls...(This was originally his idea and I originally said no -but after reading about this changed my mind)

91ghost said...

I think that Savage is my long lost uncle...the kind that you sit around the kitchen table at 1:00 in the morning eating sandwiches and having a brutally candid in-depth discussion about world affairs and life in general.

91ghost said...

There is a public elementary school in Hartford CT that for a while did not fly the American flag...instead it displayed a large, high flying U.N. flag, circled by the lower flying flags of all the U.N. "member states," except the U.S. It was a "multi-cultural" school in the "ghetto" (that place where you can wear $500.00 worth of gear, drive a $30,000 plus S.U.V., live in a nice apartment or townhome complete with all kinds of stereo and entertainment equipment and furniture, all of course on the taxpayer's dime, and yet still call yourself oppressed). A Hartford cop noticed and took offense and complained but predictably the principal refused to put up the flag--the issue started to gain public notice and finally the school board made her put up a lower flying U.S. flag within the circle of "member state" flags-----All bow down to the U.N., our loving father, brother, and guardian!!!

free0352 said...

CSM said

Riceburner, I'm 100% with you except for the first two. On the life vs. choice issue, I say give a fetus until the onset of brain function to be safely and legally aborted, and if I had my 'druthers, I'd tax subsidize it as well. We don't need domestic population explosions in demographics most likely to become welfare burdens, so I'm more than willing to educate them on the primary benefits of contraception, and the secondary benefits of first-trimester abortion.

After that first trimester though, that's it. The fetus becomes a child, and there's no doing it harm after that. Full rights to it--you had your chance.




okay, our first disagreement. You can't have it both ways on this issue. It's a givin that a fetus has seperate DNA from the mother and that DNA is human. So obviously its not a mother doing whatever with her own body. Someone else is involeved here (fetus). I'm submiting that since the fetus is human and a seperate life it should be covered under equal protection under the law. Weather it can add 2+2 is irrelevant. It's illegal to walk into a hospital and shoot someone in a vegitative state in the head, even if they are not viable, so there status of mental of physical ability is irrelevant. You accept that the fetus is human when you state that by a certain trimester abortion should be criminal. It's either a human or its not, legal rights or not. Which is it to you CSM? Make up your mind and then decide if you wish to seperate someone's protection under the law based on faculty. Remember the precident that sets. That's pretty Hitlerian should you side against the 100% pro life stance. Killing people because they are troublesome. I actually get more agrivated with individuals with a cop-out stance like yourself than those who argue the fetus has no legal rights untill birth. That argument has some legal standing and is also sick as hell, but logical. You agree its a person and choose to murder them anyway because they woun't know any better (which is debateable) and because of their possible socio economic status years in the future. Sick-o. Do you advocate killing the ACTUAL poor as well as the possibly poor? Do you rutinely pass judgement on those not even born yet? Make up your mind, does a human being have legal rights in the womb or not? If not, why shouldn't they. Some magic point of viability is rediculous and irellivant in my opinion.

Jericho Brown said...

I never in a zillion years thought I'd hear myself say this or watch myself write this or think about reading what I'm about to write, but Cig Smoker has been about the most rational thinker on this posting. I agree with nearly everything he said. C'mon, you libs out there, is it really a big deal about the president's picture being on a classroom wall? It's a non-issue, even if he was not actually fairly elected. Smoker, my hat's off to you (which I don't usually do because with such a heinous case of male pattern baldness you can never be sure which ladies you're scaring off when you take off your hat), but I had top do it because I never knew someone who seems so closed-minded and incapable of rational/logical thought had it in him. In all seriousness, we should have a few drinks some time. We could make fun of fat people down at the IHOP.

Jericho Brown said...

Free, your analogy doesn't hold water because many believe that those in vegetative states should be allowed to be euthanized. And yet, even if they asked to be euthanized before they were in such a state, the STATE will not allow them to be. So maybe that law should be changed and we should be allowed to shoot all the vegetables in the head. What kind of quality of life is that, anyway?

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Rab,
"See...I am fair enough to admit when my side goofs."

I've done so too, in the past. I just don't think it's a "goof" to say there is left-wing oppression going on when you can't even display a photo of the President of the United States in a classroom.

"Flip-flops belong on feet."

And as the flip-flops come out of Kerry's mouth, the feet should be going in.

"It's time you start defending the Bush record instead of resorting to childish nonsense."

Bush isn't the one running away from his record here. Every time any aspect of Kerry's sordid anti-defense history is pointed out, it's characterized as a "personal attack" by the left-wing garbage-spewers. Since when is a VOTE something PERSONAL, to you guys?

91ghost, there are times when I can't take Savage anymore and have to switch stations, but there are other times when I think he's firing on all 12 cylinders, making that gas-guzzling engine SING. I'm not sure but I think it might be something to do with which Italian dishes he's eaten on a given night.

One thing that he has hit right on the head is that there IS an "enemy within". Absolutely. I just don't agree that it has much to do with "immigrants"--the very most deleterious elements of our culture, the disease that infests us, is found primarily among the "RDDBs" whose families have been here at least a couple of generations. And some, like George Soros, aren't even HERE. He carries out his destroy-America agenda from the safety of Europe.

free0352,
"It's a givin that a fetus has seperate DNA from the mother and that DNA is human."

DNA is human, yes, but without brain function, what exactly is it that you are killing?

Sperm has human DNA too, but I don't see anyone serving a life sentence for throwing away a used condom.

"It's illegal to walk into a hospital and shoot someone in a vegitative state in the head"

And yet ironically it IS legal to pull the plug. Good illustration of my point.

"Do you advocate killing the ACTUAL poor as well as the possibly poor?"

Kill the Poor is a Dead Kennedys song, but not what I suggest at all. I say educate them on contraception and the availability of first-trimester abortion. You too can prevent multigenerational welfare dynasties.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

JB, oh my gawd, I'm speechless! LOL.

I try to always be rational, even when it comes to right-wing sacred cows like abortion, or left-wing sacred cows like welfare. I'd probably even describe myself, in the big picture, as a fervently hawkish progressive because to me not all government programs are evil, just the ones that ARE evil, LOL.

I don't mind the idea of helping the poor, but a handout as a reward for a refusal to work, to me doesn't come off as "help". In physical therapy in the medical world, you don't just carry the patient 100% of the time and then pretend that you're "helping" the patient. Howard Dean of all people, should know that.

So where a rational analysis shies me away from some left-wing issues, it also shies me away from some right-wing ones, although, due to the prominence of foreign policy in this election, "hawk" is synonymous with "right wing" (thanks to millions of pro-defeat demonstrators bought and paid for by George Soros, out on the street), and so the winds have filled my sails to the "RIGHT" wing these days.

On male pattern baldness, fortunately I got my dad's genes and have avoided it, rather than my maternal uncles' genes, all of whom have it. I can sympathize with any sufferers of it, though, not being Johnny Depp in my own looks.

I was actually at IHOP a few days ago and was shocked to see far fewer fat people than normal. I think low-carb diet trends are finally addressing the obesity problem in America. Although, it's not doing cereal crop prices any good, for farmers... (ethanol fuel, anyone?)

On vegetative states, I think the loved ones and family members closest to the individual are empowered and should be empowered to make that decision. That it wouldn't be in the first trimester vegetative state of the embryo, doesn't make sense to me.

free0352 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
free0352 said...

Jerhico brown

No, your argument does not hold water. Abortion and right to die are two seperate issues, and are unrelated. If a person so states to another apropriate person (parents, spouse, lawyer) that they should like to be terminated under certain cercumstances, fine. Should that person decide to live at all costs, killing them is now murder. If no document or decision is in place, the faimily of the poor bastard and a court of law have some work to do. Regardless, this is not abortion.

secondly,


CSM said.
free0352,
"It's a givin that a fetus has seperate DNA from the mother and that DNA is human."

DNA is human, yes, but without brain function, what exactly is it that you are killing?

answer: a human being.

Sperm has human DNA too, but I don't see anyone serving a life sentence for throwing away a used condom.

Answer: Certainly, the DNA of the sperm is specific to the person who it comes from, unlike the fetus. I have no problem with someone who chooses to chop thier own arm off if so they wish, but killing a person with DIFFERANT DNA than yourself (I.E. not a part of your own body) is killing a differant life, plain and simple. I do not care where this life resides (inside a woman for example) Abortion IS NOT birth controll in the clasic sense (obviously, it controlls birth, but it does so by infringing on the rights of a seperate person. The pill and condoms do not)

"It's illegal to walk into a hospital and shoot someone in a vegitative state in the head"

And yet ironically it IS legal to pull the plug. Good illustration of my point.

Answer: It is only legal once certain measures are taken first such as a living will. Since a fetus can not enter into such a document, this is a totally differnat situation. To kill a person without their permission is murder.

"Do you advocate killing the ACTUAL poor as well as the possibly poor?"

Kill the Poor is a Dead Kennedys song, but not what I suggest at all. I say educate them on contraception and the availability of first-trimester abortion. You too can prevent multigenerational welfare dynasties.

Answer: I have NO problems with contraception. Remember that free0352 is ex-libratarian party. I left that party because of the war and the abortion issue. I beleive in self ownership, and killing a seperate (clearly seperate, differant DNA, differant human)human for whatever reason other than warfare and self defense or at thier stated request in preferably a legal document is murder.

free0352 said...

Further...

You CSM have stated that at a certain part in pregnancy, abortion becomes imoral. Why? Why not during the entire pregnancy? Your argument sounds as though it is ok to terminate a life so long as the individual is not thinking. Therfore, is it ok to say, kill a person who is passed out drunk? Much like a fetus, they will soon gain mental faculty. We live in a nation of laws, where all are created equal. Those laws should apply to all, including inaliable rights of life, liberty, and the persuit of happyness. Clearly these rights are violated by justifying this practice by discriminating against a person due to thier stage of growth.

free0352 said...

Lastly

The way to eliminate multi-generational welfare dynasties is to eliminate welfare.

exfbonnie said...

Ala71 - What a sweet post! It was so very thoughtful for you to mention me in there and of course, DESULTbutterfly! The fact that you take the time out to really talk about each of your links and why you enjoy them so much. I really wish i could say the same. There are so many that I really wish I could read everyday...However, Im grateful, to be here and as new friends from the blogsphere!!!

Rock on, Ala71!!! I love that you are your own person. And that you always have so many interesting and very thought provoking posts...not to mention the comments that trail. I havent gotten through all the comments yet, but Ill be back to read through!!! Im very impressed with some of our fellow blog friends ideas on things.
xoxoxox

Ron Brynaert said...

"Bush isn't the one running away from his record here."

Please. Bush's major "new policy" speech was just a rehash of his standard stump attacks against John Kerry. In the first debate, Bush pretty much avoided answering every single question and tried to go after Kerry.

You know this.

And...this is the last time I'm going to mention this (unless someone writes something original and then I'll respond and then you can call me flip-flopper again)....but....

A picture of the President with his wife is not appropriate to hang in a classroom. A picture of the President is (unless...as I wrote earlier...it causes turmoil in the classroom...and I don't think you people believe in allowing turmoil in the classroom or do ya?) A picture of the President with his wife, dog, girlfriend, coke dealer, daugher, whatever is not. A picture of the President displayed on a bulletin board suggests a certain respect for the office and an acknowledgement of the importance of our democratic system (not that it meant much in the 2000 theft). A picture of the President with his wife represents a picture of the President with his wife. Suitable for the cover of People magazine. Not suitable for the bulletin board of a classroom. Enough, already. This is rather obvious. Save your venom for the people out there that don't think any picture at all of Bush should be put on the bulletin board.

Peace

militarymanstan said...

Rab,
Bite me.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Free,
"You CSM have stated that at a certain part in pregnancy, abortion becomes imoral. Why? Why not during the entire pregnancy?"

I consider 'personhood' to be a matter of brain function. A human-like creature without brain function is not capable of conceptualizing its own existence, pain, or any of the aspects of killing we consider a tragedy in a live human case. The process and flow of its potential to become a life is interrupted, but it is similarly done so in the case of "wasted sperm". The sperm and the egg have a potential to become a human life, but we don't place that potential on a higher level than a human's right to choose their procreative or non-procreative destiny. The introduction of a non-thinking sperm together with a non-thinking egg may indeed give it distinct DNA, but from my philosophical view that sense of distinctness is not enough to elevate the embryo above the level of sperm or egg in terms of its rights being above parental choice rights.

"Your argument sounds as though it is ok to terminate a life so long as the individual is not thinking."

I think when an ill patient becomes brain-dead, the patient is essentially dead. One can artificially make the heart pump forever and ever, but the patient will not come back to life. Pull the plug and let go.

And when an embryo is not yet "brain alive", to me as a legal entity it's not yet alive enough to override choice on the part of the parents.

"Therfore, is it ok to say, kill a person who is passed out drunk?"

Passed out drunk is not brain-dead. There is still brain activity.

"Much like a fetus, they will soon gain mental faculty."

But not yet. There is nothing taken away from a first-trimester embryo that it has ever yet acquired, other than a mechanical precursor to biological function.

"Clearly these rights are violated by justifying this practice by discriminating against a person due to thier stage of growth."

If the potential to grow into a human life sustains a compelling interest in protecting that potential life, then there is no fundamental reason other than "non-distinctness" NOT to outlaw contraception, as a sperm and an egg are just as "potentially alive" as an embryo in the first trimester. And they are every bit as human, in DNA.

So really you think you are "pro-life", but what you're fighting for is "pro-distinct-DNA-rights". I personally don't think distinction in and of itself to be worth the human and social cost of forbidding all women all the time, from making choices that may affect their lives in a fundamental way.

"The way to eliminate multi-generational welfare dynasties is to eliminate welfare."

That, too.

Rab,
"Bush's major 'new policy' speech was just a rehash of his standard stump attacks against John Kerry. In the first debate, Bush pretty much avoided answering every single question and tried to go after Kerry."

Not really. But even if he did, staying on the offensive is somewhat different than threatening TV stations with lawsuits if they run Swiftvet ads, for example, or whining endlessly about "personal attacks" every time someone mentions what he VOTED ON in the SENATE. Kerry's past is a sacred cow and people talk about it at their peril, while Bush's past is open for every dumbass punk rocker to verbally vomit about in his feeble attempt to be Joe Strummer. It's moronic that your side is this insecure.

"A picture of the President with his wife is not appropriate to hang in a classroom."

So if Bill and Hillary show up photographically in a Berzerkely indoctrination camp somewhere, you'll ride the teacher out of town on a rail, I suppose? I think not. You're just an insipid partisan about this, is all.

"the importance of our democratic system (not that it meant much in the 2000 theft)."

If you've got a problem with the Electoral College, lobby to change it. If you do nothing but endlessly whine about the way the Founding Fathers setup this Democratic Republic, they left open a mechanism for changing it. But pissing and moaning isn't the way to do it.

"Peace"

At all costs?

Ron Brynaert said...

Only a sicko would take the word peace and add quotation marks around it.

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