Thursday, October 21, 2004

A Brief Education for the Democrats –c/o Fahrenhype 911

This post is in honor of Cheeky Monkey…and all the other Democrats that are knowingly (or even worse- unknowingly) regurgitating the propaganda and lies of Michael Moore…over, and over and over….

“There is no terrorist threat…there is no terrorist threat in this country –it is a lie.” Michael Moore


The 2000 Election that was ‘stolen’ by George W. Bush
:

In two separate recounts then-Governor Bush won Florida. The Supreme Court ruled that then-Governor George Bush was the winner. The New York Times, the Washington Post and CNN did a six month study of the election results in 2001 and verified that President George W. Bush indeed won the election. There was no proof of voter disenfranchisement found. Voter disenfranchisement as defined by the left: people that aren’t registered to vote being turned away from the polls, convicted felons not being allowed to vote, people showing up in the wrong voting location or turning up multiple times being turned away. Actual disenfranchisement: 790 military ballots being blocked by Al Gore.

“Was it all a dream?” Michael Moore


George W. Bush hosted the Taliban in Texas (and prepares a secret plan for an Afghan pipeline):

The Taliban did indeed visit Texas in 1997…under the approval of the Clinton Administration's State Department. George Bush was indeed the Governor of Texas –but neither met with the Taliban leaders –nor was consulted about their intended plans to visit Texas.

The Afghan pipeline was something that was proposed by the company that President Bill Clinton supported while he was President –the company the George Bush supported had plans for a pipeline that went no where near Afghanistan and would require no dealing with the Taliban. Unocol had proposed a pipeline under Clinton but backed away from the plans long before Bush ever took office. This is from the BBC: “The U.S. company Unocal led a consortium in the 1990s which undertook feasibility studies, but it pulled out of the project in 1998…Unocal has no plans or interest in becoming involved in any projects in Afghanistan, including natural gas or crude oil pipelines”

You make too much of these attacks –there is more chance of being hit by lightning than killed in an act of terrorism” Michael Moore


Bush Talks to his Rich Base:

Lefties love to talk about the scene in Moore’s ‘movie’ where the-Governor Bush stands at a podium in a tuxedo and says to the tuxedo-clad crowd, “Some would call you the Haves and the Have Mores…I just call you my base.”

What Moore fails to show is Vice President Gore sitting in the front row at the same dinner… An annual ‘Al Smith Charity Dinner ‘started in 1948 and held annually to raise money for hospitals and charities for poor people. In political years it is a custom for both candidates to come and engage in self-defacing humor. This is called creatively misleading editing.

“George W. Bush is a good President. He articulated a rule of law that rivals the Monroe Doctrine and the Truman Doctrine –the George W. Bush Doctrine is that we will go after terrorists and the countries that harbor them.” Former NYC Mayor Ed Koch (D)


Bush looks to get rich with the Carlyle Group –working with the Bin Ladens:

The Bin Laden funded subsidiary of Carlyle (used to make the link to the Bushs’ in Moore’s ‘movie’) was sold by Carlyle in 1998…before George H. W. Bush joined. The Carlyle Group’s major investor is none other than George Soros –and it was his investments that put Carlyle on the map. The top officials at the Carlyle Group are: Arthur LeVitt (Clinton’s Chairman of the SEC), Tom McLarty (Clinton’s White House Chief of Staff), William Kennard (Clinton’s Chairman of the FCC). Carlyle Group owns Lowe’s Theaters which showed Moore’s movie…therefore using Moore’s own model we can link the Bin Ladens to Carlyle and to Soros and to John Kerry and to Moveone.org and to Michael Moore.

Islamic extremists are not pluralists…their only goal is militant Islamic domination.” Steven Emerson


The President arranges for the Bin Ladens’ to leave
America while flights are grounded:

First they left after all planes were flying. Political pressure? This was proven to be false in the 9/11 Commission report. The report found no political intervention and no evidence of anyone higher than Richard Clarke involved in the decision to grant them permission to leave (after being thoroughly vetted by the FBI).

Real Facts:

The Saudis were instrumental in funding Clinton’s library in Arkansas and gave $200,000 to The Carter Foundation.

“Gas has gone up! Why are gas prices so high if we went to war for oil?” Ann Coulter


“Michael Moore never went to Walter Reed…all the footage of soldiers was stolen from news feeds”
Soldier who lost both arms in Iraq dismayed to find he appeared in Fahrenheit 911 without his knowledge.

Michael Moore’s film, which tries to knock liberty, to say that we don’t have any…is the best example of what a lie his film is.” Dick Morris, former Clinton Advisor.

The policy mandate given to the President by Congress in 1988 stated that the US policy was to liberate Iraq and effect regime change…Bill Clinton signed this into law.” FahrenHYPE 911…

FahrenHYPE 911 debunks every ‘truth’ Michael Moore ‘exposes’ in Fahrenheit 911. It’s a shame that the masses choose to believe Moore when even those in his own party have labeled this movie propaganda. In the interest of full disclosure, I must say that I have not seen Fahrenheit 911…but I have read the transcript. I have seen Moore’s lies creeping into the arguments on the left for months…I am not sure if they are quoting (believing) the movie or if these ideas have slowly crept into the collective mind of the Democrat Party………

26 comments:

cheeky monkey said...

Your site takes way too long to load! Probably because of your insanely long posts.
Oh wait, sorry. I didn't beging with my usual prostrating before your feet.
Ala, you are the smartest, BEST person in the world.

OK, back to business. I'm working on my thesis so I'll have to make this quick. First, to make the Carlyle group nothing but a bunch of Dems is a joke. Did you forget Baker, Pappa Bush, and the rest. Sure there are Dems, but to make is a vast Liberal conspiracy is like saying Rush isn't a drug addict and Bush didn't have runs in with coke and DUIs.

"Who’s on the payroll at Carlyle? President Bush’s father, for starters. Secretary of State James Baker, who represented Bush during the Florida recount, is a managing director. William Kennard, who recently headed the Federal Communications Commission, recently joined Carlyle, as did Arthur Levitt, a former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. And that’s just a few of the dozens of former Cabinet secretaries and other administration officials that are listed as employees of the firm. Their boss is Frank Carlucci, the former Secretary of Defense whose best friend and former college roommate Donald Rumsfeld now runs the Pentagon.

While it is not unusual in Washington to see former public officials take their connections and insight to the private sector, the Carlyle Group appears to have unprecedented access to the current administration. According to the New York Times, Carlucci met with Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney last year to talk about military matters—at the same time Carlyle was in contention for several billion dollars worth of defense projects, including the Crusader.

Carlyle officials have been particularly sensitive to reports about potential conflicts of interest, insisting that none of their employees lobby the federal government. “I have never mentioned the word ‘Crusader’ in (Rumsfeld’s) presence,” Carlucci told Fortune magazine last month. Indeed, the Carlyle Group is not registered as a lobbying agent in Washington, though according to records filed with the U.S. Senate, many of its subsidiaries, including United Defense, boast lobbyist payrolls of more than $1 million annually.

At the same time, Carlyle has been a prolific contributor to federal campaigns during the last two election cycles. During the 1999-2000 campaign, Carlyle and its employees contributed roughly $800,000 in soft money, PAC and individual contributions to federal parties and candidates, 62 percent to Republicans. (Of that total, more than $20,000 went to the Bush-Cheney ticket, not including the several thousand dollars Carlucci and others contributed to the Bush’s Florida recount expenses.) So far in 2001-02, the group has contributed $265,000, more than two-thirds to Republicans."

http://www.opensecrets.org/alerts/v6/alertv6_52.asp

I would like to amend my point about Bush-- he used his friends at Enron to conduct the meeting with the Taliban. Clever Georgy! Good for Ken Lay too! Apologies for the misrepresentation (something I'm not holding my breath for Ala to EVER do. She is the SMARTEST gal out there you know).
"Afghanistan is located in a prime position for the transportation of the vast amounts of oil & gas from the Caspian Basin – A UNOCAL-led consortium competing with Argentinian firm Bridas, proposed to build pipelines through Afghanistan years ago [BBC] - In 1997 Taliban officials visited UNOCAL HQ’s in Texas to discuss the agreement [BBC] – Negotiations between UNOCAL and the Taliban were conducted by Enron through Saudi intelligence [John Loftus] - Confronted with the Taliban's refusal to accept US conditions, the US told them: "either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs" [Asia Times] - FBI Counter-Terrorism Chief John O’Neill resigned from the FBI in disgust, stating that he was ordered not to investigate Saudi-al-Qaeda connections because of the Enron pipeline deal (O’Neill was amongst the 3000 people that died at the World Trade Centre) [John Loftus] - The US installed Afghan leader Sir Hamid Karzai [Times] , a former UNOCAL consultant [Asia Times] – A pipeline agreement has now been signed [BBC] - This pipeline may have saved Enron from collapse by providing cheap gas to one of its 'loss making' power stations in India [CorpWatch] - The invasion of Afghanistan was planned before Sept 11 [BBC] – Taliban leaders & al-Qaeda fighters were flown to safety with secret US approval during the war [NewYorker] - Opium production has increased by 1400% [BBC]" -

or another take

"Unocal has desired to run a petroluem conveyance from Uzbekistan to Pakistan. This would require the pipe to cross Afghanistan. Unocal brought Taliban members to Texas a number of times in 1997 and has been negotiating a deal with them since that time. Unocal has also been a big supporter of Bush. John Oneill was the head of counter-terrorism at the FBI. He and several others have said they were investigation Ossama Bin Laden and the Taliban until the Bush administration told them to stop. This has been backed up by Richard Butler, head of UNSCOM. Oneill wrote and published a book about with two French authors. In France it is a best seller. Here it doesn't recieve even scant mention by the mainstream media. If the media had a liberal bias, this book would be translated and passages aired. There would be an investigation. Instead the press ignores it showing their conservative bias.

In August, John Oneill resigned from his post in protest. He became head of security at the World Trade Center. John Oneill died in September as a result of the heinous actions of those who he was trying to investigate. Several of Oneill's associates are talking to Judicial Watch. It could well be that Unocal was present at the Energy Task Force meetings. It is a good bet the conveyance was discussed with Cheney. The link with one of Bush's financial backers, the deal with the Taliban and the halted investigation makes much more sense when contemplating why Dick Cheney is so dead set on hiding information from the people. Of course the media repeats the administration line about "unvarnished information" and leaves unchallenged why Oneill lost his life. Media Bias? Big time. "http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/articles/mediabias.htm
For more on the cosy relatinship between Bush, Bindar Bush and the Bin Laden families, see
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html

And on a personal note, I have a huge problem with the Bin Laden family being ushered out of the country, no questions asked, as people whowere waiting for organ transplants died. As AMERICAN families couldn't get to New York to search for loved ones or see the grave of their children. Why doesn't that concern you?
And if Bush didn't authorize the flights... why wouldn't he answer the questions??
"The Bush administration has refused to answer repeated requests from the Sept. 11 commission about who authorized flights of Saudi Arabian citizens, including members of Osama bin Laden’s family, from the United States immediately after the attacks of 2001."
http://www.hillnews.com/news/051804/binladen.aspx

Oh and about that stolen election. Yes, it was.
The vote total was certified by Florida's secretary of state, Katherine Harris, head of the Bush campaign in Florida, on behalf of Gov. Jeb Bush, the candidate's brother.” Mark Zoller Seitz, “Bush Team Conveyed an Air of Legitimacy,” San Diego Union-Tribune, December 16, 2000.
The Florida Department of State awarded a $4 million contract to the Boca Raton-based Database Technologies Inc. (subsidiary of ChoicePoint). They were tasked with finding improperly registered voters in the state’s database, but mistakes were rampant. “At one point, the list included as felons 8,000 former Texas residents who had been convicted of misdemeanors.” St. Petersburg Times (Florida), December 21, 2003.
Database Technologies, a subsidiary of ChoicePoint, “was responsible for bungling an overhaul of Florida’s voter registration records, with the result that thousands of people, disproportionately black, were disenfranchised in the 2000 election. Had they been able to vote, they might have swung the state, and thus the presidency, for Al Gore, who lost in Florida. Oliver Burkeman, Jo Tuckman, “Firm in Florida Election Fiasco Earns Millions from Files on Foreigners,” The Guardian, May 5, 2003 http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,949709,00.html. See also, Atlanta-Journal-Constitution, May 28, 2001.
In 1997, Rick Rozar, the late head of the company bought by ChoicePoint, donated $100,000 to the Republican National Committee. Melanie Eversley, “Atlanta-Based Company Says Errors in Felon Purge Not Its Fault,” Atlanta Journal-Constitution, May 28, 2001. Frank Borman of Database Technologies Inc. has donated extensively to New Mexico Republicans, as well as to the Presidential campaign of George W. Bush. Opensecrets.org, “Frank Borman.”
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Gore got the most votes in 2000.

[A] consortium [Tribune Co., owner of the Times; Associated Press; CNN; the New York Times; the Palm Beach Post; the St. Petersburg Times; the Wall Street Journal; and the Washington Post] hired the NORC [National Opinion Research Center, a nonpartisan research organization affiliated with the University of Chicago] to view each untallied ballot and gather information about how it was marked. The media organizations then used computers to sort and tabulate votes, based on varying scenarios that had been raised during the post-election scramble in Florida. Under any standard that tabulated all disputed votes statewide, Mr. Gore erased Mr. Bush's advantage and emerged with a tiny lead that ranged from 42 to 171 votes. Donald Lambro, “Recount Provides No Firm Answers,” Washington Times, November 12, 2001.
“The review found that the result would have been different if every canvassing board in every county had examined every undervote, a situation that no election or court authority had ordered. Gore had called for such a statewide manual recount if Bush would agree, but Bush rejected the idea and there was no mechanism in place to conduct one.” Martin Merzer, “Review of Ballots Finds Bush's Win Would Have Endured Manual Recount,” Miami Herald, April 4, 2001.
See also, the following article by one of the Washington Post journalists who ran the consortium recount. The relevant point is made in Table I of the article. http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf

Kat said...

Ala...you made a booboo. The signing of the Iraqi Liberation act was in 1998..not 1988.

Cheeky...I think you miss some vital information or choose to ignore it so you can continue to propagate your own fiction (I mean that in a nice way of course, since we all have a tendency to do it).

But seriously, I think you disregard the part where "Papa Bush" joins Carlyle AFTER the Saudi deal. He didn't orchestrate anything with them. Maybe you missed the part where Papa Bush leaves the Carlyle group, too. So, what does this really have to do with the Saudis and "who is in bed with them"?

You would be fooling yourself if you don't think that each party will continue to be friendly to the Saudis and continue to use "diplomatic pressure" to get their wants whoever is elected. John Kerry is certainly not going to piss off the Saudis and he can say whatever he wants about making the country free of dependency on foreign energy sources, but "dependency" on foreign energy sources isn't about what we have here in the US.

It's about free market. Did you know that, out of the 9 bl bbls per day that is produced by US oil companies, only about 3 bl actually stays "in house"? Why? Because these companies are private companies and can sell to whoever they want for the best price possible. They are not nationalized companies.

According to the IEA (international energy agency) at best, the US can only up it's production of oil to appx 13 bl bbbls per day within 10 years. We consume 21 bl bbls. So, we would have to nationalize oil companies, withdraw from the global market and we would still be unable to cover our own needs.

Further, based on technology today, it will not be plausible to insist that we have vehicles that do not run on oil in 10 years. Even the best of the hybrids needs oil and totally electric cars need huge battery systems, light weight frames and materials that can withstand impact. That kind of technology is yet to be invented as well, although we are further along than ever before.

We could put severe limitations on auto makers and insist that they make all vehicles fuel efficient to 30 mpg or above. You ready to pay for that? I don't know about you, but I struggle to pay for my 30k vehicle. I'm not sure I could afford one of these nifty vehicles.

Either of the alternatives I mentioned are going to require money for the auto industry to retool or increase technology at their plants.

This is a long term solution but it is not a "10 year" solution.

Last on this thought process, even IF we withdraw from dealing with the Saudis (highly unlikely, but I'll entertain the fantasy), it won't break them. Au contraire, at most, it will be a "moral" victory that costs our nation billions while the Saudis go on their merry way selling their oil to the countries that need it, like France and Germany who get 35% of their oil from Saudi and friends or China and Korea that gets 80% of their oil (by contrast, the US gets 15% of it's oil from the ME countries combined).

Let's say, in our fantasy, we withdraw commerce with the Sauds and have our own oil supply. Then, they piss us off. We can't embargo or sanction them because we would have nothing as a lever anymore. We could blockade them, but then France, Germany, the rest of Europe and most of asia, which has emerging markets in dire need of oil, will be pissed off and might return the favor, even going so far as threatening or prosecuting war on us because we have interfered with their national interests (Do you know why Japan attacked us in 1941?).

In the nicest scenario, China's economy begins to go in the shitter, they embargo us, withdraw investments and demand loan payments. Can you say "depression in the USA"? Can you say "rationing"?

Can you say that the talk of the Saudis is just that, all talk?

We will eventually get to the point where things are fuel efficient and probably less dependent on oil and such, but that will be market driven as oil prices and gas continues to rise (just like in the 70's). They will all kiss and hold hands until then.

McWizard said...

Sorry to say that Mssr. Moore has been chewed into chunks and spit out. Debating this is soooo last year.
In court we say "Asked and answered your Honor."
Perhaps instead of Godwin there should be Moores Law.
As soon as you quote that miscreant your point is moot?
im·be·cil·ic.

riceburner147 said...

Cheeky: for all your many words, I was most "impressed" by your mention of the fact you are working on your "Thesis". (how humble)

I would hope in the future you make it clear(er) when you are quoting and when you are pontificating, (i mean, writing your own thoughts). Thanks

leftyjones said...

it's interesting how much McWizard sounds like Bigandmean....of course, so do several of the posters on here. Is it possible that our good friend B&M posts under a number of different identities to mask who he is? I would say that it seems to be the case but then again...it wouldn't be very Texan to not be a straight shooter, right?

Bigandmean said...

Cheeky,
You claim that President Bush has had run-ins with coke and DUI's. That is, of course, a very general statement with no specific information. Years ago, when he was still drinking he plead guilty to one DUI. Was there more than one? If so, when and where did it occur? If there's no record or any documentation of more than one then why continue to refer to it as though it were proven fact? Don't you think it's unfair to continue to refer to multiple convictions when there was only one?

The allegations about the use of coke are even more egregious. When did that happen? Do you have places, dates, names of witnesses? If so, would you share them with the rest of us? If not, don't you think it's unfair to continue to make such a claim?

As to the endless claims by Democrats that the 2000 election was stolen, I genuinely hope that whatever the outcome of this election, it won't be close. Otherwise, we'll be looking at more litigation, thanks to the precedent set by Al Gore and the Democrats in 2000. The lasting harm done by that failed attempt on Gore's part is that millions have refused to accept the result and the legitimacy of Bush's presidency. This has led to our being divided instead of united.

IF more blacks had made it to the polls and voted for Gore pushing him ahead, should Bush have then been allowed to have the vote completed in the Florida Panhandle which had slowed to a trickle when the networks declared Florida for Gore? IF Bush could not pull ahead by a recount in the Panhandle, might he have done so IF the military vote had been accurately counted? Bush probably would have won Missouri IF the polls had not been kept open by a democratic Judge beyond the legally prescribed time for closing. Should he have been able to determine how many Missouri votes were cast illegally? IF Bush had pursued the probability that thousands of New Yorkers voted illegally in Florida might he have won by an even wider margin? The IF's don't seem to stop do they? I don't think anything illustrates the absursity of endless claims of "what ifs" than the observation that if your Aunt had balls she'd be your Uncle.

Bigandmean said...

Lefty,
You'll have to ask McWizard about whether he and I are one and the same person. Since you seem to be so sure of yourself, I'm not sure you'd believe me.

But let me say this and I want you to listen to me. I did not have blog with that name, McWizard.

Thank you.

Bigandmean said...

Lefty,
One more thing. While I am not McWizard, you were right that I do post under another name once in awhile. You see, believe it or not, I am actually Ala71.

You and I have known each other for so many years I'm surprised that you didn't recognize me right away. How does it feel to finally realize that your prom date was a lawyer from Texas who is old enough to be your father? I think I'm supposed to make one of these things now :).

Now you know how Luke Skywalker felt.

Tom said...

Cheeky monkey wrote that, "on a personal note, I have a huge problem with the Bin Laden family being ushered out of the country, no questions asked ..."

Actually, cheeky monkey appears to have a huge problem with either reading or hearing, since the 9-11 commission, in its report and subsequent press conferences, totally debunked this nonsense. The FBI asked plenty of "questions" they were permitted to leave.

You should save the reflexive repetition of silly liberal dogma for your thesis. What's it on, by the way? "The Colon: It's Myriad Uses in Graduate Theses."

Tom said...

Cheeky Monkey:

I want to save you the emabarassment of asking for a link to the above shredding of your moronic contention that the Bin Laden family left the country with "no questions asked." So, here it is. The ultra conservative Seattle Times reprints a story from the ultra-conservative Washington Post.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2001988006_conspire25.html

Best of luck with that thesis. Judging from the dishonesty and lack of intelligence you display here, you should kick ass in academia.

leftyjones said...

Cheeky,

Way to go girl! You're the best! I'm so impressed by the way you stand up to those conservatives. I wish we had 10,000 more like you on our side! You're absolutely heroic!
As for Plucky Tom, (who still owes me a drink) I wouldn't worry too much about his fact finding....he tends like Michael Moore and Ala71, to be a bit one sided in his thinking and only seems to pull up argumentative links when they disagree with his spin.

I do want to caution you though when arguing with a conservative about the "rules" of those arguments.
1. If Bush ever made a mistake....so did Clinton and it's really his fault.
2. Fahrenheit 911- all lies...every word. Fahrenhype-911, all true....how do we know this? Because they say so of course.
3. You are partisan and cannot be trusted to tell the truth, they are partisan and fight for their make believe "silent majority" and are noble for it.
4. Academic achievement only counts when you are a conservative fighting the system, academia for you is simply another piece of paper proof that they are right.
5. Despite the proliferation of hate radio, conservative papers, tv and online magazines and pundits, the conservatives are still fighting uphill against the "liberal, elite media"
Now, those words are only used when attempting to prove you wrong. The minute one comes up to justify their argument or position....say from the Seattle Times perhaps....it simply becomes good solid fact.

The fact is, I haven't researched either side of the Moore/FahrenHYPE argument....or the ownership of the Seattle Times for that matter and I hope later today to do my own research on the issue. I don't know what I'll find but I imagine that I will check and be able to quote from more than just the FahrenHYPE talking points when looking it over.

Oh yes...Ala, in response to yesterday's comment.
I could have, should have and would have gotten lucky last night but unfortunately did not as I was doing my part to both stimulate this putrid economy and provide for my family.
You see, I was working at one of my two entrepeneurial ventures, outside of the day job, in an effort to make more money and pay my fair share of taxes into the system.
Taxes I might add that pay for things like the CHIP program that an usually high number of Republican families I know rely on for their kids healthcare. Programs like FEMA, that Gov. Bush can't live without as he readily speed dials his brother for another beachfront bailout.
( You see, the only government programs a republican hates are the ones that they haven't needed yet or that don't give their companies an expensive contract)
Don't forget initiaitves either.....my tax money goes to help fund a war that both kills American soldiers and innocent kids and Iraqi's while doing nothing to kill the Al-Qaeda brigades in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I also get to help fund programs that provide aid to countries in need but that also make that aid conditional provided that the countries receiving it do not use it for any family planning or safe sex conversations. Thinking like that is helping the AIDS epidemic explode worldwide and well, needless to say, I'm pretty proud to be supporting that plan.
So, I'm sorry to report that last night was not a "lefty getting it night" but rather a Lefty giving it night.....
Just doing my part.

McWizard said...

To Whom It May Concern,
I am and have always been McWizard. Please compare my writing and prose to others and you will find me not only unique but on the cusp of the issues. That is why I tire of old arguments that have been discussed, dismantled and put to bed. Especially Michael Moore.
I started my own blog but have little time to add to it. I write a high volume of research material for other, more well to do, writers and am working on a novel as well. I am especially proud of having had my letters to the editor prominently published in several newspapers and online magazines. They are usually printed at the head column.
So why do I post on this Blog?
I find the Author engaging and worthy of the attention.
Beto Ochoa
"They love the milk and honey but forget who bought it and the price that was paid."
"Peace is not the absence of conflict but the presence of justice."

~Jen~ said...

Cheeky said “Your site takes way too long to load! Probably because of your insanely long posts. Oh wait, sorry. I didn't beging with my usual prostrating before your feet. Ala, you are the smartest, BEST person in the world.”

What a nasty, hateful thing to say.

Cheeky, if you despise our host so much, why do you even bother coming back?

Normally I ignore your not-exactly-subtle jibes at Ala, but this is really getting old.

justrose said...

Jen, you gave me the courage to say this, I wanted to all yesterday and last night when everything Cheeky has said to ALa has rankled me, and not just because ALa has been my best friend for 29 years and I am fiercely protective of her.

Even objectively I think some of the things that you said, Cheeky, were just plain mean-spirited. Which is anyone's right, I suppose, if they have the courage to post their thoughts. But ALa has been very gracious in taking some of those quite-personal attacks for the sake of partisan debate and neighborliness.

Cheeky, I know sometimes the bad feelings about political stuff go a little far and I know it's hard to affect tone in email-type situations, and I know you girls have some good-natured sparring going on, and I know nothing inflames people more than politics and religion, and ALa talks about both, and her positions tend to be the direct opposite of yours.

You have to be prepared to disagree with much of what gets said here, and I think it's great that you defend your positions. It's good to have people of different minds as part of the blogosphere and keeps things interesting.

But wave all the summa cum laude Ivy league degrees around that you want, they can't take the place of tact and diplomacy. And just plain common decency. ALa deserves an apology.

I think we all owe it to each other to try to have each of those, as we interact together in this forum to make our various positions known.

jr

leftyjones said...

wow. so that's how it is, huh?
I'm sure when Cheeky reads these later she'll respond for herself so I won't do it for her.

I will say that I said pretty much the same thing and it was in pure jest and mockery of the people who pepper these post pages ( cool consonance ) with their drooling over Ala's posts.

Say whatever you want about liberals but they don't have shows or pages that start out with the weird idol worship that conservatives do whenever they find someone who is better at articulating their fallacies than they are.

Mega dittos Rush....... Your a great American Sean.......

" ALa71,

You are indeed intelligent and beautiful. I am impressed with your logic and reasoning, and I wish more folks had your attitude..."

"You are absalutely correct Ala, you are indeed a smart cookie"

" Ala,
You're absolutely amazing! "

" You are now a hero to me.
Godspeed. "

All quotes from the last few days and all absolutely great comedic and sharp poke in the ribs material. I can't quite get the sensitivity about this. Have the Republican shows that promote this type of cult following but don't allow people like me to get on air and make fun of it actually begun to convince people that this isn't totally laughable and fun?

I suppose they have.
That's a shame.

I would think that anything we put out in here in blogworld is open season for both fun and harsh commentary and that lines are crossed only when the conversation leaves debate and becomes violent, scary or divulging actual real life information that would be private....those to me would seem to be grounds for apologies. But sometimes humorous, sometimes harsh rhetoric??? I didn't think so....but maybe. Of course, if being an arrogant nasty minded bastard means you deserve an apology then I suppose Cigarette Smoking Man owes most of the people around here a solid books worth of them.

As you can all see....our group of libs and conserv's that used to debate around here has changed...it's become much more of a cheerleading page that preaches to the converted. I don't think that Ala has changed but the audience has....maybe that's how it should be.
I never thought it to be much fun having a conversation with people who always agree with you or that don't get downright snippy sometimes.....
but then again, I never wanted to be a republican.

cheeky monkey said...

I am so rarely silenced but Jen and Justrose, you got me. I'm spluttering here.

So, Ala can routinely ridicule the "elite intellectual left" and demonize our apparent high-mindedness and love of gray matter (not good old black and white policy decisions), tell us all how her professor wanted to give her more than an A... higher than a perfect, tells us how qualified she is to be speaking on such matters (perfectly qualified, but hypocritical for deriding intellectuals on the left for their apparent boastfulness of intellect) and I'm the one who is mean and nasty for throwing around (for the first time, as a counter point) my Ivy League Credentials. Amazing.

I appreciate your love and concern for your friend, but first, I give her what she gives me. Simply put. I am one of the few women who will take her on. I don't fall into the "Ala, you're the smartest girl ever" category. It's not my style to pontificate at the feet of others, particularly those who I think are plain wrong, support the wrong people, and the wrong policies.

Ala, if you were offended, you know where to find me and I'll cook you a meal and pour you a glass of wine and we can drink to our feisty spirit.

free0352 said...

Hmmmm.... as far as Ala feeling insulted, I woun't clame to speak for her in that matter. I don't know how she feels about Cheeky's comment. I will say that it does matter what each of us posts here, because this blog belongs to Ala, she made it and its her's. I consider myself a guest here. Now historically, she has let us say what ever the hell we feel like, about anything at all. Obviously on a long enough time line, someone is going to get "out of line," at some point. I'm positive if some jerk started posting anti-semetic or racist nonsense, we'd all be calling for Ala to take the offender's posts down. Do I think cheeky's comment warented such outrage and deserved consequences? Absalutely not, the jibe wasn't of that level. My point is, as owner of this blog the line for good taste and postable comments is drawn by Ala and Ala alone. People have taken stabs at myself several times (Where you at Paul?) and I can take it, and give back 100% x2. Thats me. If Ala chooses to be offended, then she has full rights to boot cheeky, its her blog. But I've been reading this parge for quite a while now, and if I know Ala she's currently deviseing some excellently worded, zinger filled comeback post that I will enjoy. I'd guess she gets the same type of joy a lot of us Republicans get inflaming librals till they start shreaking that shrill nonsense groupspeak they are so very famous for, and hurling indignant insults. Not all liberals are like this, but every conservative has had a very passionate moron get all idiotic with them. It's great, I love insighting it. The most sincear form of flattery a liberal can give a conservative is to loose all grasp of reason and start all spiting and sputtering and call you a nazi. Great fun. I'm sad liberals can't enjoy this act when the slower brothers in the conservative camp represent us badly. I guess they can't live knowing someone doesn't like them, hence their stupid economic and forign policy (Can there be any other explanation?)

Secondly, this has always been a cheerleading page. Did any of you dems really think you were gonna get Ala to call Bush a war criminal and vote Kerry? Come on now... The joy of this page is scoring a point for your team, and having your fellows congradulate you for laying the smack down on the other side, and the oposition howl at your brilliant victory. Its all in good fun. Few of us have ever crossed the line, and no one is a habitual offender for inapropriate trash talk at this point. On this page politics are a sport, and a little competative verbage is both fun and to be expected. Like it or not Democrats, as owner of this page Ala gets to be both star NVP and referee. I difer to her judgment on this matter and look forward to her next post.

Lastly...
Of course we Republicans encourage and congradulate those amoung us with skills of articulation. You see, we don't so closely follow the party line as to be indistinguishable (god I need to learn to spell) from one another, Its as if you require Dan Rather to explain to you how to think. To complement a democrat would be like complementing a healthy person for walking. We all do it pretty much the same, so whats the big deal. It's like there's a big book you all read, complete with apropriate politically correct answers to regurgitate every fifteen seconds. "Hey Lefty, way to tell em' Bush rushed to war with not enough diplomacy, even though we had 13 years of it. They never heard that before. Good one."

As the conservatives collectivally grown.

"Did you know Bush is stupid, he snorted coke once with Osama bin Ladin, and got a DUI with Satan. Haliburton is the Anti Christ! The war is all about oil!"

oh yea, you were typing?

For the record, this is a good example of a friendly jibe.

Now, I'll stick my neck out and say Ala is both;

Beeee-U-T-fullllll and sharp as a tack.

If you don't like my assesment, you can suck my ass :)

cheeky monkey said...

Kat-- your points about oil are good ones. My issue is that the President is so in league with the Saudi family that there is no way he can look to alternative energy, try to wean America off of its dependence from oil, AND the Saudi family's cash. The ties are too great between the Bush's and the Saudi royals. We will never address that countries appalling human rights record, lack of democracy, lack of free press etc with Bush at the helm. And yes, while Dem and Republicans alike are too indebted to the Saudis, this family is above and beyond interwoven with them. Kerry stands a far greater chance of addressing some of the undemocratic issues I mentioned (Bush hasn't said an awful lot about bringing democracy and freedom to Saudi Arabia, has he?) as well as working with scientists and actually listening to the scientific community to move us beyond Petroleum.

Big and Mean, Bush, Bush and Harris along with the Justices that should have recused themselves from the case stole the election. You can deny it, but if a county by county recount had been allowed by Bush it would have gone the other way. Look at Florida now... same crap, same Bushes.

You might think Moore is a scoundrel, I think he is a fucking hero for opening the eyes of the sleeping electorate and telling the stories that the so called left wing media elite intellectuals wouldn't.

While I understand why people on the right hate Moore and his movies, he tells the stories and uncovers the dirt and absurdity of American politics that you7r darlings at Sinclair won't touch.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

cheeky monkey,
"President is so in league with the Saudi family that there is no way he can look to alternative energy"

I will admit to being somewhat enticed by alternative energy toward a slight pull of a few magnetic inch-pounds in Kerry's direction. Then again, to me it's not worth taking his 1971 insult to Vietnam veterans and permanently carving in stone. It's also not worth having, as President, somebody who voted against the first Gulf War, even when it had passed his delusional and immature notion of a "Global Test" with flying colors. There is absolutely no telling what sort of damage could happen under a Kerry administration that would make us pine for the "good old days" when the worst one could say was that the CIA had bad information.

"The ties are too great between the Bush's and the Saudi royals."

One would think with all this endless yammering about how vital it is to have allies in the war on terrorists, that one would at least catch a breath before launching into a diatribe about how we should END alliances. If anything, Saudi Arabia is where the rubber meets the road, and far more important to have on our side than the snooty French or the coprophilic Germans, who would be about like fifth and sixth wheels in the war effort even if they COULD be convinced to see reason for a change.

"if a county by county recount had been allowed by Bush it would have gone the other way."

I've lost count of all the recounts, and have yet to read of one that goes any way but Bush's. You're still fueling your conspiracy theory with nothing but hateful zeal, which didn't get any of the extreme right anywhere in the '96 election, did it? Your outrage over the bare fact of how the electoral college works is the moral equivalent of cultural conservative outrage over a blowjob in the oval office. The latter has learned to move past it. If you wish anything but ulcers and a feeling of impotence in life, you will too.

"You might think Moore is a scoundrel, I think he is a fucking hero"

Quite naturally because you are easy prey for his manipulative ways and propaganda tricks. He selectively snips scenes the way a little girl cuts out paper dolls, and you go gaga over the final shape. He leads you to believe blacks really DON'T have a right to vote; that all 100 members of the Senate, including Al Gore himself, were in on the same conspiracy to elect George W. Bush as all the members of the Supreme Court; that someone you did business with 20 years ago, if he does business with one of the NON-terrorist brothers of Osama, that makes you synomymous with Osama himself; that if anyone at all protests at your inauguration, that means your election wasn't valid; that if you're president, you're not allowed to take any vacation ever; and if Tony Blair visits at Camp David and you discuss diplomatic matters, that doesn't count--still vacation; that no evidence whatsoever is needed to "prove" the President secretly carried out a terrorist attack as a part of "covert ops"; that we are supposed to forget an entire decade of liberals bleating and moaning that George Bush Sr. "didn't finish the job" of "taking out Saddam". That is to be scratched from the record, and wiped out of your mind; that there was never any torture in Iraq and Saddam was a good guy--an innocent; that it's evil to make money in America, unless you're Michael Moore himself. Oh yeah, and there is no such thing as "terrorism". That's the new 2+2=5 coming from your big (VERY big) brother's Ministry of Fabricated Truth.

You are just plain easily impressed.

Bigandmean said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Bigandmean said...

Lefty,
So what if people who read Ala's blog compliment her? Why should that bother you or anyone else? She created this and works hard to maintain it. She deserves all the compliments she receives. If you choose not to compliment her, that's your choice but to pitch a hissy fit when others do makes no sense to me.

cheeky monkey said...

Well guys, I'm sorry that the humor of Rush like accolades for Ala is lost on you. I am, because it's funny, and my comments were mostly made in that regard. What I don’t find funny is someone who criticize the left for lauding their own intellectual superiority but does the same. I'm just pointing out inconsistency. But, I understand that the wagons generally surround the camp when it's attacked. Fair enough.

Perhaps like the other left voices that seems to have disappeared from this site, I'll need to lay low until after the election. Our perspective seems increasingly unwelcome here, despite Ala's good efforts to encourage heated debates.

leftyjones said...

Bigandmean,
I think it's great that people compliment Ala and I'm sure she loves it too. But if you expect me to stand back and not have some fun when the Stepford wives start pouring in to pay homage and stand around in slack jawed awe of the blonde master....well, then you've learned nothing about me these last few months. Trust me, the minute someone starts cheerleading me there is no one who would love to make fun of that more than Ala. Hell, my own wife can't even agree with me without Ala turning it into " a Lefty's getting lucky tonight" joke.....(which IS damn funny by the way)

Anyway....I'm done with this topic. Please feel free to compliment her and please expect me to joke or tease her about it when people lay it on too thick.

Otherwise, I'm glad you all have found Ala....it's going to be a teeth gnashing four years for all of you starting in about two weeks and you're going to need her humor to help you keep the faith.

Kevin F said...

Cheeky Monkey, are you any relation to the ice cream "Chunky Monkey"?

Bigandmean said...

Lefty,
I certainly don't make the rules here and no one needs me to defend them, especially Ala. I do, however, have a hard time sitting on my hands and saying nothing when the give and take appears to go too far. I believe when the criticism is about someone's politics, it's fair game, when it appears to be personal, it's not.

Aunt Bitchy said...

Sounds to me like Cheeky was attacked by the green-eyed monster...sad really.

Lefty:
Seriously, if cheeky is willing to dish it (with those comments)she better be able to take it... she does not need her own personal cheerleader. "right on girl, you sounded caddy and jealous way to go!"