Thursday, August 26, 2004

The New Soldier

Last night I saw Col. Ollie North say that he was awarded five Purple Hearts, but he would only accept two-to ensure he could ‘stay with his men’. I started thinking about S.H. at Walter Reed and how he will soon be on his way back to Afghanistan with a metal rod in his arm because ‘he can’t leave his men’. I remember my dad telling me stories of the two weeks before a soldier was set to leave Vietnam and how he would part from the unit a bit –guilt because he had to leave his brothers…this is dedication and devotion that I can only hope that I would posses in a similar situation. This loyalty seems to be the common bond that forms the much talked about ‘band of brothers’. This is the reason that the discussion regarding John Kerry’s Purple Hearts is so very important…


Now that the first Purple Heart is seriously in question –due to Kerry’s own words, we have to examine the type of man that would request his own awards and leave. He spent not one night in a medical facility and not a stitch was sewn and he left his ‘band of brothers’. This is not a “smear” or a “slime” (words the DNC has ‘audience-tested’ –how sick is that!) –this is a legitimate CHARACTER DEBATE. News outlets interview soldiers nightly who have taken fire and hits in Iraq and the statements from them are all the same –“Yes sir, I could probably go home for this, but I wouldn’t leave my men.” Is this what Kerry meant by the ‘New Soldier’? The one that leaves? The one that feels no guilt over abandoning his ‘band of brothers’ for self-inflicted wounds and self-requested awards?


An old interview that Kerry did has resurfaced to shed more light on the Senator…he says, “I thought that it would be doubly advantageous to serve and then to protest”. I don’t know why this would surprise me as that is precisely what the “I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it” was about. Pacify all –commit to none. This pacifist/appeaser quality is not one for a Commander in Chief. This is a bad character trait –not a positive one…This does not make him nuanced or open-minded –this makes him a wishy-washy flip flopper. This makes him a politician in the worst connotation of the word.


Kerry has criticized Bush for sitting in a classroom for seven minutes after Andy Card whispered, ‘America is under attack”. Seven minutes to process information that only one President before has had to process. Seven minutes to let the children finish their book with out panicking a group of seven year olds. Seven minutes. John Kerry said a few days after 9/11 that him and a few other Senators were in a room in the Capitol Building and watched the second plane hit on TV. ‘They sat there and realized that no one could think –and eventually heard a loud crash’. The Pentagon had been hit –FORTY THREE minutes later –they sat there ‘not thinking’ for forty three minutes. When the Pentagon was hit the first instinct of the Secretary of Defense was to roll up his sleeves and help carry people out of the rubble. This was Don Rumsfeld’s FIRST instinct –the guy that Kerry wants to resign.


The other side can call this SBVFT debate ‘slime’ and ‘smear’ (those audience tested and approved words). They can talk about Ginsburg and rich GOP donors, but they know that the debate is relevant and that’s why their screams are so loud. They know that it will be virtually impossible for any vet to vote for a man who requested a Purple Heart when there was no enemy fire –and used it to leave his ‘brothers’ after four short months. They know that it will be hard for Americans to take criticism of the President over seven minutes to heart, when he sat dumbfounded for forty-three. They know that watching video footage of the man that Kerry has called to resign dragging survivors from the Pentagon while it was still in flames –will only serve as a stark contrast to the man who left the Capitol and left on a plane from Vietnam. They know that the term flip-flopper has stuck because it’s true and not because the GOP has more money. Kerry has neither resolve nor loyalty. He has presented no agenda –other than ‘anything you can do I can do better’. He has put forth nothing of substance from his twenty years taking up a Senate seat. And his worst offence is that he is a man that has sucked off women his entire life. If the President doesn’t get re-elected, it won’t be Kerry that wins –it will be anybody but Bush.


Also -I want to thank CB for maintaining 'My War' as long as he did. I am sure I speak for everyone when I say that we are ALL sorry to see him go. I am quite confident that he will have many opportunities waiting for him stateside!

54 comments:

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

I'm fairly convinced at this point that Bush doesn't want to win. See my blog for why I think that.

I caught Kerry's "most length" film footage of his testimony to the Fulbright committee on C-SPAN just a few minutes ago. Am I the only person who thinks Kerry's voice sounded exactly like Thursten Howell the Third, on Gilligan's Island? The resemblance is just spooky.

Anyway, it's always good to reread and rewatch some of the things people say and do, to catch things you didn't catch about them before. Like, for example, Kerry's prediction that if U.S. troops were to leave Vietnam, the Communist forces would just peacefully form a representative government, "just like here in this country". That blunder there makes me wonder if, once you scratch the surface, it isn't Kerry who's the village idiot of the two mainstreamers campaigning this season. How could he be so STUPID as to think Communist forces would form a "representative government" in Vietnam? How could he be so STUPID as to think all the people filling his empty brain with bafflegab about alleged atrocities, made up out of thin air at the Winter Soldier hearings, were real? And how could he be so stupid as to slander "thousands" of his fellow veterans and expect that none of them would pipe up later on in their own self-defense?

You talk about your "Bushisms", but how could Kerry just deadpan out there, "I voted for the $87 billion, before I voted against it", and expect that to be a statement to move his campaign forward?

Just like in any democratic process, the screaming lunatics of the fringe left are going to make this nation as a whole get what mostly only THEY deserve.

"President Kerry, Iran has attacked us! Shall we retaliate?"

"Uhm, I don't know, let's see if France and Germany will give me permission..."

To paraphrase now from, appropriately, a Vietnam war movie, "Full Metal Jacket": we are in a world of shit.

~Jen~ said...

CBFTW shut his blog down.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Oh, and another one: he repeatedly told the Committee that all it would take is an ANNOUNCEMENT of a date by which U.S. troops would leave Vietnam, and the NVA would release all of our prisoners of war. Just like that.

You lefty loonies out there, and you know who you are: and you want that guy making life or death decisions for all of us?

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Jen, that was a very Punk Rock thing of CBFTW to do. I appreciate it fully. ;)

~Jen~ said...

Cigg, I loved the final parting shot. That quote was perfect.

I'm really sad about it though.

ALa said...

CancerMan (It's pretty funny that you don't smoke)...anyway, people don't know these things though. We are not 'the average' American. Sean Hannity was doing 'man on the street' interviews today and you should have heard these people...They believed that Kerry's VP was named 'Stu Ped'. Two said they weren't voting for Bush because of 'that meeting he had with Bin Laden on the morning of 9/11'. None of them knew that Kerry (or Kearney as some said) was in Vietnam. Crazy shit! Sad actually.
Have you checked out the music site that I have linked --it's a 'punk' site that's trying to get off the ground -just music, no politics.
www.blankforever.blogspot.com

Jen -I know...I was sad, but I think it's best -the comments were getting too stupid. He has opened so many doors for himself! I will miss him though!

McWizard said...

I never heard the Bush camp bitch once about the ridiculous hit pieces MoveOn and other groups have aired. The fact of the matter is when people lie about you, no response will work. Those who want to believe the lie will never accept your rebuttal and those who spot it as a lie don't require one. The response that these swift boat ads have drawn is indicative of the other side of an accusation. That it is the truth.
When I was a boy and needed correction my dad would spank me with a leather belt. Now that's a really painful thing. A blow with a leather belt. When my dad ran off my mother would correct me with her belts. The belts that you find in the women's wear section of a department store. Cloth and cardboard. You can't draw blood with one of those things. The attempt to draw blood with something faux wont yield the same results as with the real thing. MoveOn ads. Faux. The truth hurts.

Jericho Brown said...

I don't understand how people can be making such a big deal out of Kerry's medals and whether or not he deserved them when by all accounts, Bush did everything in his power to stay completely out of the war and away from any military service whatsoever. How that is continuously glossed over is beyond me. Well, actually it's not. This is how the Republicans have been campaigning since Bush I smeared Dukakis. A person points out a legitimate weakness and instead of directly addressing it they say, "Oh, yeah, well, look over there at these smoke and mirrors that we've cleverly constructed about the other guy." It's sneaky and in my opinion, downright WRONG. Instead of letting stances on issues decide elections, it becomes whether or not John McCain fathered a baby out of wedlock with a black woman or Did Kerry really deserve his medals. AT least he WAS THERE. Does it make him less of a man that he didn't stay in the shit after he received the three purple hearts? Perhaps. But at least he was there. And there are far more EYE-WITNESS accounts of his heroics while he was there than there are personal accounts of any misdeeds. This is the real issue. Whether or not he wanted to be a career military man should have NOTHING to do with it.

redleg said...

Ala71

Just wanted to apologize to you about getting stupid and argumentative in your comments with another blogger a few posts ago. I should have taken it it somewhere else. I won't devolve like that again.

I do appreciate your forum.

And I am sorry to see CB go, but I think his blog served its purpose. It kept him sane and soon he will be home.

ALa said...

redleg...don't worry about it--seriously. (I was fun to read).
I am glad for CB. It was just getting to ridiculous and people have no common sense -he should've disabled the comment section a long time ago. Did NPR release his name when they were told not to? Everyone should write in or call --I refuse to see that as a 'mistake'.

redleg said...

Thanks...

I believe CB decided to stop the madness. I think his purpose was to vent and keep himself sane, and he managed to inform a lot of us about the truth of combat over there. It was just to much to do. He will find another outlet. He is one of the smart ones who will do well and stay true to himself no matter where he goes.

Just got home...must go sleep.

~Jen~ said...

Found this in my comments today:
At 2:30 AM, marsfromspace said...
daytoday@npr.org is where you can email NPR and let them know how much you appreciate them listing CB's name and rank on the goddamn internet and for ruining such a great blog. They were the straw...

ALa said...

Here are some NPR email address:

Comments on NPR Coverage ombudsman@npr.org
Corrections to NPR Stories corrections@npr.org
Employment Information employment@npr.org
Sponsorship Information molsen@npr.org
Foundation Support lbremner@npr.org

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Jen, CBFTW's blog was like the punk rock credo to which we aging punkers failed to adhere: "Live fast, die young." Like Tibetan Buddhist art, you just appreciate the beauty of the thing while it lasts, and when the sand sculpture is wiped flat, you just let it go.

-----

ALa71, the idiocy of the "people on the street" scares me sometimes. And the idiocy of anarchist protesters scares me even more. Agitational propaganda has been going on in the human race since the dawn of time, but it really became dangerous in the 20th century, resulting in the regimes of the U.S.S.R. and Nazi Germany, and now has become so subtle and sophisticated that outright fairy tales are accepted as "fact" on the street.

But one thing mitigates my fear, and gives me a sarcastic sort of confidence: if Kerry DOES win, the fanatical loyalty the mainstream media has for him will turn the major networks and print polluters into a de facto AMERICAN propaganda machine, since by then a victory for America will be a feather in Kerry's presidential cap. And propaganda has been what's slowly killed us as a nation over the past four years: death by a thousand cuts whereby Muj atrocities in Iraq are downplayed and "not talked about" while any shred of a faux pas by U.S. forces gets splattered all over the front pages of the Times and the Washington Post. The "world" (as defined by left-leaning media, comprising Socialist Germany and Socialist France and Russia and al-Jazeera, mostly) considers America evil because the American media has TOLD them we're evil. That process will stop once Kerry's sworn in. Then the media will be absolutely one-sided in its portrayal of America being the shining city on a hill, the perfect Democratic utopia, the great leader of enlightened thought and evolved action, blah blah blah. They'll do it to make Kerry look good, and the side effect will be that it will make us win. Or if we don't win, it just won't ever be "televized".

The Iraq war will cease to be Vietnam, and will start to be Kosovo. Think about it.

------

Yes, I checked out the blankforever blog. It rocks!

-----

McWizard, there was "bitching" by the right about moveon.org, and Michael "Stupid White Male" Moore, but there was certainly no effort to stifle that speech via FEC technicalities or threaten lawsuits. The spirit of your assessment is true though. "Bitching" about negative ads is one thing, but when that dangerous monster made of bad attitude toward the 1st Amendment rears its ugly head, it nearly always does so on the LEFT bank of the mystical river.

One thing I'll take issue with: the truth can hurt AND a lie can hurt. Kerry's lies hurt thousands of Vietnam veterans with his smug privileged voice intoning lies to that stealth-Communist bastard, J. William Fulbright (Bill Clinton's political benefactor). It was worse than Jane Fonda's lies because he took the credibility afforded by a uniform and by medals, and he twisted that into a blade that he sunk between the ribs of EVERY American prisoner of war being held by the North Vietnamese, and EVERY returning veteran who from that point on was spit upon as a "baby killer" by twisted hippy freaks on the American street in those days.

Yeah, lies hurt too.

-----

Jericho Brown, just go back to sleep. You are obviously sucking down every lie the mainstream media tells you without ever questioning what they say, so why put on a big charade of being even remotely curious about the real story?

Bush was certainly no war "hero", but he was also no TRAITOR. NVA interrogators weren't torturing American POWs with any of the words George W. Bush may or may not have said in 1971. Kerry can't say the same.

Your man Kerry is a "war hero", but NOT for the American side.

You want stances on issues to decide this election? You mean the stance where Kerry makes an empty promise of dragging France and Germany into Iraq (where they've stated they WILL NOT GO)? That, by the way, is highly similar to the other false promises he made about Vietnam: that if we ended the war, the Communist Vietnamese would set up a "representative" government, and would hand over all American POWs. One of Kerry's worst features is that he is a deplorably inaccurate judge of other nations' character.

Or maybe you want Kerry's stance on taxes versus Bush's. Okay, Kerry makes yet another laughable promise: that he can balance the budget by ONLY taxing the RICH! News flash, skippy, that's not going to happen either. High level incomes have high level tax shelters, and you can put the nominal rate at 99% for all his wife Theresa cares, and she still won't be paying a dime. Tax-free foundations; creator/donor trust funds; even on down to all the "business" expenses that get written off; all of these are there to empty out Kerry's taxation words of any meaning.

You want to talk energy? That perpetual motion machine Kerry proposes, of switching over to hydrogen? Yes, it does burn cleaner and yes, it would make us less dependant on Socialist Venezuela's political whims for energy, but you know what? You have to put a lot of energy INTO hydrogen production to get energy OUT of it. So what non-hydrogen energy source can we use to make all that hydrogen? Solar? Do you have any idea how expensive solar panels are, and how laughably weak they are in the energy produced? No, you don't, becase you just suck down all the media's lies without investigating the facts. Bottom line is, this hydrogen proposal of Kerry's can only happen if we vastly ramp up NUCLEAR electrical power generation plants. So I will ask you this: where do you think the Nature Conservancy will let President Kerry dump the spent fuel rods? Downtown Boston?

Are we still on "issues" now, Jericho Brown, or do you want to go back to "he said, he said" dueling smear campaigns for a while, and expiate some of the mental sludge Michael Moore pumpted into your brain?

I'm flexible, myself.

Captain Holly said...

It's too bad CB had to shut down, although I can see that it was probably the best thing for him to do.

His comments section had become a circus, attracting what seemed like every link-whore and troll on the internet.

Tammi said...

CB gave us a great insight. I too wish he would have just diabled comments. It was too the point where I didn't even like to read them. Remember when it was just a good way to support someone. It all started out so nice.

I've started about 5 different times to simply say how much I hate that it was the commenters that ruined so much for him. I don't understand it, I never will. We'll just have to wait and hope that he pops up again when he gets home.

Forseti said...

None of you pinheaded neocons ever caught it.
I'm sure redleg did, but didn't want the rest of you to know.

CBFTW - We all now know (and shouldn't but CB obviously told somebody his name, his ego F'd him) what CB stands for but FTW is a variation on FTA.
Fuck The War is what this young man was saying, as so many said in '68,'69,'70,'71,72.

This wasn't your prowar inside pundit, this was a sane man (call him a soldier, but at the end of the day he's a man with all that goes with it) in an insane situation.

There is no glory in war and anyone who claims that God is on your side had better do a reality check.
War doesn't care about God, War is it's own monster feeding on the lifeblood of everything around it.
There never has been a good war, only wars that had to be won.
At the end of the battles, the end of the war there needs to be a way to put the survivors back together in some semblence of a 'friendship' or at the least a working relationship to prevent the specter of 'perpetual war'.
Over 100 years after the end of the American civil war, all of those wounds are not healed, I can take you to a grave of an officially missing union soldier in South Carolina.
The family did not learn of the resting place until 3 years ago.
That means that no one who ever knew this man ever had resolution.
The scars of war do not heal just because you rebuilt the schools, the roads, the industry or the hospitals.
The real wounds of war heal slowly and painfully and sometimes not at all.

ALa said...

Forseti -many of neo-cons have been emailing him since he started the blog & snail-mailing him and knew all along that it stood for 'Fuck This War' -so what? He linked Hunter Thompson on his page -so what? That didn't make us like him any less...we aren't looking for a party shill ...they are out there if we were. I imagine the 'greatest generation' said FTW as they ran onto the beaches at Normandy --your point was what?

Forseti said...

My point is you have all been trying to use him.
You know it.

Forseti said...

Redleg,

Do you think he decided to stop?
I think that once it went national with NPR and his name that it stopped being a commanders issue and became an Army issue. The commander pulled a quick CYA and had CB pull the works.

leftyjones said...

Wow!
Does the Republican party send out an e-mail each day with these talking points for their operatives to use or have you become a one-woman spin cycle?
I think you covered them all:
flip-flopper
self inflicted wounds
self requested awards
I voted for the 87 billion....
appeaser

blah, blah blah, blahblehhhhhhhhhhhhh.......

I liked your additional accusations of counter-spin:

"smear and slime"-audience tested by the DNC
"anybody but Bush"

snore.

At least you gave some compelling reasons to vote for "W" with that powerful record of his.
Or wait, maybe you once again left that out.

I don't think anyone is bothered about arguing for or against a candidate, that's the nature of the season.
But please spare the sanctimonius...."DNC audience tested- how sick is that crap......."
Both parties leave nothing to chance. They poll the most stupid of details. They are equally sneaky and slimy in the methods they will use to win.
Do you recall "W" in Ohio a couple of weeks ago on the stump and throwing around the phrase, "We've turned the corner and we're not turning back"? If you don't it's because it only lasted for about a day after the Republican "audience testing" groups didn't respond well to it.
Its going to be a dirty, ugly slimefilled battle for the next few months. The least we can do as field combatants is to agree to not be blatantly sanctimonius about anything.
Who cares where the money comes from, there is too much and it's all dirty.
Who cares how much polling or audience testing is done?
Both sides will do it to no end.
Who actually wants to hear the " they'll say anything to win" line one more time. Both sides political operatives can and will do anything to win. It's true.

I must credit you this though. You did come up with a new one....and with extra nasty terminology as well.
I have heard many things about Kerry but never did I hear, "And his worst offence is that he is a man that has sucked off women his entire life."

That's a new and extra low one. I won't be surprised if the campaign actually steals that one from you and starts using it.

ALa said...

Lefty- You haven't heard that before? Yeah, you did...we went to the concert where David Lee Roth did the cover of Kerry's song...remember (those scary scalpers!)
"Just a gigolo and everywhere I go, people know the part I'm playin'..."


gig·o·lo :

1. A man who has a continuing sexual relationship with and receives financial support from a woman.


Feminists Unite...a gigolo is running for the highest office in the land!

Tom said...

ALa:

Do you have a copy of the book? It's pulling in big money on E-Bay. I think Kerry's trying to buy up all the remaining copies.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Forseti, I agree that there is no glory in war. I agree that God is not necessarily on anyone's "side". I disagree with your implied claim that war is always the wrong course of action. Sometimes it's the lesser of two evils, between it and being at the mercy of an enemy.

Your sanctimony for disparaging all violent action can be excusable since you probably didn't get the privilege of seeing the three football-field-sized warehouses in Cambodia filled with SKULLs. You also might have had some better things to do than watch documentaries of Stalin's oppression in Russia. You probably have this idea in your head that every nation everywhere has freedom and human rights just like we do, and there should never ever in a million years be any reason to fight--that we can just join hands and sing Kumbaya. It's a lovely pie-in-the-sky pacifist vision of the world, and I dearly WISH it could be the reality. But it isn't.

I saw the very things you lecture us about. I saw a Columbian Air Force door-gunner in a helicopter cut a little girl of about 8 to shreds with an M-60, and had a Columbian officer excuse it by shouting to me in broken English, over the noise: "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT. WE WARN THEM NO PLANT COCA-EENA. THEY PLANT COCA-EENA WE SHOOT. SO THEY PLANT AND WE SHOOT." I wanted to shoot THAT bastard right there on the spot. Yeah, I know about being morally conflicted. No one has to drone on and on to me about how war sucks ass. But you know what? Sometimes even if you don't go off to war, war will come to YOU. Pearl Harbor did it for us in WWII, and 9/11 did it for us more recently. Second-guess start of the Iraq war all you want (I know I do), but al-Qaeda ***IS*** in Iraq right ***NOW*** and yes, THOSE are the bastards that did 9/11 to us. Right there and right now is where our war of survival against radical Islam is taking place. It's where the rubber meets the road. Even liberal Democrat Bob Kerrey noted in a 9/11 Commission conference on C-Span, that the reason we got 9/11 was because we were unwilling, before, to take notice of radical actions overseas, and failure to take the fight TO the radicals overseas. Every one of you smarmy "more hippy than thou" protesters will have blood on your hands, here at home, with OUR civilians, if you were to really get your way.

Captain Holly said...

Forsetti:

I remember CB's comments section being filled up with lefties like you. You'd read one or two posts and then say to yourselves "Right on, Man! This guy's just a teach-in away from fraggin' his CO!"

Well, unlike you, before I even posted a single comment on CB's blog I went back and read his entire archive. And from what I read, he was far different than you imagine him to be.

For example, he hated Michael Moore and said he could never vote for John Kerry. He loved his Republican Dad, and recognized how evil Saddam Hussein was. He described how grateful the silent majority of Iraqis were to him, and sometimes he would talk about the good things that have been accomplished in the country.

In short, CB wasn't the one-dimensional characature that you anti-war types kept trying to force him to be. And perhaps that's why he quit: He got tired of being everybody's Poster Boy of the Evil Bush War. He probably didn't want the hassle of wading through endless e-mails with subject lines like "Solidarity, Brother!" and "Bush Lied!"

All I know is that we won't know until he gets back.

ALa71, sorry for posting links, but to save bandwidth I'll just stop here and refer everyone to the post I wrote on this today.

http://thewarrenat.blogspot.com

ALa said...

Tom:
Kerry's people have been working to bury it since his first run for Senate...BUT
here's a link where you can read it free on line:

http://johnkerrythenewsoldier.blogspot.com/

They also have the links that show that many of the 'vets' were proven to be activists and not vets at all...

Forseti said...

CBFTW's PictureAs for reading CB's entire Blog I was there at the second post in June, there was only one post to read back to the begining, and that was a poem.

As the veep would say, go bugger yourself.

Tom said...

Hey, Lefty:

If you want 'positive' reasons to vote for Bush as opposed to all the Kerry negatives, I can give you a dozen. The problem is, what are all the right reasons for Republicans are the wrong reasons to you, so what's the point? This is true for you guys vs. us on Kerry. That's why there are party conventions: We each get to reaffirm what we like about our respective candidates and parties. We watch the other side's convention to boo and hiss at the bad guys.

You whine about cliches, but you utter one of the most worn out of all: that Republicans/Conservatives - Democrats/Liberals should focus on the "positive", as if either side can somehow change their opponents' minds if they focus on their candidate's "positive" attributes instead of the opponent's "negatives". Yeah, tomorrow, as we used to say in South Philly.

Both sides already know they're right. The fun is in demonstrating how the other side is wrong.

ALa said...

Captain Holly -No problem...post all the links you want...and welcome to the fray...


Forseti -Read this and then tell me how I feel again...
http://mobyrebuttal.blogspot.com/2004/08/his-war-our-soldier.html#comments

leftyjones said...

Tom,

"positive" isn't going to happen. I'm okay with that and I agree that we both know how this works. I also think that some of the fun on these sites is to argue with people who are equally passionate and informed but reside on the other side of the aisle.
All I'm asking for was to cut the sanctimonius "wide eyed" can-you-believe-it? stuff.
Most of us on here know better than that. I think we can agree on that.

redleg said...

Just got home again

Forsetti-- CB gave us the Army story from ground level. I loved him for it. And I will bet you he decided to shut it down before he lost control of it. If I was his battalion commander, I would be encouraging him to keep writing it because it was getting out the soldiers story better than any liberal newsie ever could. I highly doubt they shut him down. But you probably love conspiracy theories. I heard the NSA is following you. Those of us in the real world have more important things to do.

Have a good time in fantasyland.

Best wishes to all and send your best to CB and his brothers in arms.

Forseti said...

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files,

"I disagree with your implied claim that war is always the wrong course of action."Nothing of the sort was implied, name me a good war?
I can run an arms length of wars that had to be fought.
That does not make them good, only necessary.

"Your sanctimony for disparaging all violent action can be excusable since you probably didn't get the privilege of seeing the three football-field-sized warehouses in Cambodia filled with SKULLs. You also might have had some better things to do than watch documentaries of Stalin's oppression in Russia. You probably have this idea in your head that every nation everywhere has freedom and human rights just like we do, and there should never ever in a million years be any reason to fight--that we can just join hands and sing Kumbaya. It's a lovely pie-in-the-sky pacifist vision of the world, and I dearly WISH it could be the reality. But it isn't.

I saw the very things you lecture us about. I saw a Columbian Air Force door-gunner in a helicopter cut a little girl of about 8 to shreds with an M-60, and had a Columbian officer excuse it by shouting to me in broken English, over the noise: "IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT. WE WARN THEM NO PLANT COCA-EENA. THEY PLANT COCA-EENA WE SHOOT. SO THEY PLANT AND WE SHOOT." I wanted to shoot THAT bastard right there on the spot. Yeah, I know about being morally conflicted. No one has to drone on and on to me about how war sucks ass. But you know what? Sometimes even if you don't go off to war, war will come to YOU. Pearl Harbor did it for us in WWII, and 9/11 did it for us more recently. Second-guess start of the Iraq war all you want (I know I do), but al-Qaeda ***IS*** in Iraq right ***NOW*** and yes, THOSE are the bastards that did 9/11 to us. Right there and right now is where our war of survival against radical Islam is taking place. It's where the rubber meets the road. Even liberal Democrat Bob Kerrey noted in a 9/11 Commission conference on C-Span, that the reason we got 9/11 was because we were unwilling, before, to take notice of radical actions overseas, and failure to take the fight TO the radicals overseas."
Excuse me, where did I get into this?

"Every one of you smarmy "more hippy than thou" protesters will have blood on your hands, here at home, with OUR civilians, if you were to really get your way."I demand an appology.

My God, can't any of you think past the moment and prepare for tommorrow?

Fight when you must and do it well, wage peace as hard as you wage war and do it just as well.

I'm not a pacifist, I'm not a liberal (just not a neocon).
I probably go beyond any of you when it comes to military service obligation.
I think it should be manditory, 2 years BEFORE you can go to college, so that somebody who knows what reality is can get your head on straight before you decide you want to go into advertising or hairdressing.
Everyone in this country should know how to properly handle a sidearm or rifle.
Everyone aside from the mentally disordered (yes that includes criminals) should be allowed to own and carry one.
If we did do we would need a lot less police.
I worked on a ranch in west Nebraska for 2 years.
You have never lived around a more polite bunch of people in your life. Why? Because an insult could result in a shooting, not a silly lawsuit.

Forseti said...

Redleg, I just checked with my old buddies in the NSA.
They assure me that yes I'm being watched and not to worry about you.

~Jen~ said...

Forseti - if anyone is trying to use CB it's you.

Every post I read of yours is full of vitriol and vinegar. What is the point of that? Seriously? Are you expecting to win a republican over to your side by insulting them every chance you get?

You should go read "This We'll Defend's"
or "LeftyJones'" blog. They are both liberals who know how to debate intelligently without hurling idiotic insults.

Jericho Brown said...

The most incredible thing about the comments underneath Ala's posting is that they're all beating a dead horse. One of you said that there's no point in talking about the good parts of either candidate because that is not going to change anyone's mind. What changes minds is whatever bad shit (true or otherwise) that can be associated with one candidate or the other. There can be no more positivity until the majority of the American public decides that they're sick of the bullshit propaganda tossed out there by BOTH candidates. Yeah, right. We all know it's not going to happen anytime soon because we're all swallowing whatever selected bullshit we choose to believe. Therefore, in defense of my own beliefs and what I believe to be the beliefs of Forseti, we are choosing to vote AGAINST Bush because he's shown himself to be in the pockets of corporations. Because he took us to war without exhausting diplomacy. Because even with a college degree, it is nearly impossible to get a fucking job now. When Clinton was in office you could get nearly ten bucks an hour working at a video store. Now you're lucky if they call you back. Nobody has ANY right to call themselves punk rock if you're defending an administration like that. You're not punk rock at all. You're fucking punks. And stop using CB as your own personal figurehead. He's just a guy doing his job. He's the only punk rawk motherfucker on this blog.

Forseti said...

Jen, if (probably when) you read me 'hurling idiotic insults' it was probably in return, not in initiation.

I'd be better off in thier company since this bunch seems to be absolutely consumed with hate for anyone the supposes that everything isn't perfect just the way it is.

There does not appear to be any room for middle ground here.
I think they've taken the 'friend or foe' thing just a bit too far.

I'm not supposing a world of "wouldn't it be nice", just trying to suggest one where we don't escalate to the point of bombing London because the BBC said something bad about Kansas.

Forseti said...

I want to appologise to the entire group.

Entering into the conversation with; "None of you pinheaded neocons ever caught it."

Was simply wrong, it was a stupid thing to do, and now reading back I can see where I set the tone.
It still doesn't explain the 'made up' things said about me but definately put folks in a bad frame of mind about anything I had to say.

I can't promise not to do it again, but I will make an effort to be more sweet than the meat around me, not less.

Thank you for giving me a shake Jen.

ALa said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ALa said...

Jericho -maybe you should move from where you’re living because the 'Help Wanted' section of the Philadelphia Inquirer is always HUGE. I see help wanted signs everywhere -I know people on unemployment who are working under the table. I have a friend that owns a restaurant where people come in and ask him to sign papers saying they asked for a job -he offers one -they don't want it ...just sign the papers.
You may have also forgotten about the sticky little resolution called 1441 -EVERY member of the UN signed it. Don't start the "it wasn't a coalition without France, Germany, and Russia" BS... We all know now why they weren't there --because it was about oil --them getting rich on Saddam's oil...and the big bad USA wrecked it all for Jacques Chirac...BooHoo.
I am not sure who referred to themselves as punk-rock --I re-read the comments and didn't catch that. Punk rock was going against the grain wasn't it? (kinda like being on the 'right' in Philly?)

Forseti said...

CB is gone and we will all miss his presence.
Personally I'm hoping he finds a way to come back without the peanut gallery of comments.
I never posted on there, I didn't see it as a forum for debate, and anything I had to say couldn't come close expressing what he wrote made me feel.

During the hiatus, just before the fall of CB's blog I found this blog jlawson51.blogspot.com. It's quite interesting even if doesn't envolve the combat side of the war, it does provide a good view into another side that the media isn't giving us.

Captain Holly said...

Forsetti:

Since you didn't dispute any of the examples I provided, I'll assume that you read the same blog I did.

I never said CB was a hard-charging, gung-ho, nuke-em-all cheerleader of the war, or unabashed supporter of George Bush.

But he's not a John Kerry clone, either. Don't expect him to come back to the states and join Iraq Veterans Against the War, or throw his medals over the White House fence.

From what I read, he would never do that.

Forseti said...

ALa71,

I went and looked at His War: Our Soldier and honestly, I'm not sure what you feel after reading it.
I can tell there is emotion there but I'm not sure beyond that. It's rather broken and convoluted, actually I guess it looks a lot like I might have tried to write but from the perspective of a mother and not the perspective of someone who had been in the same situation, just not so bad.
When I read CB's stuff it would throw me back to the boredom, the shock and the rush of being in the moment, and then I'd remember that this was a kid, much like I had been but having grown up in a world much different than mine.
It would be interesting to be able to sample his feelings and memories 30 years from now (God willing) and see how he views these events then.
I know it's interesting to go back and read my old notebooks from 30 years ago, in some ways I'm the exact same person, but now I have layers of time and other experiences on top of it, and it's different. But I can still close my eyes and see, feel, and hear it just like it happened.

Forseti said...

Captain Holly,

Your posts leave me no entry for discourse.

ALa said...

Forseti -I wanted you to see that I didn't like the political discourse on his blog either (and stated back then that I thought some were ‘using him’. If and when I commented, it was just with a silly SHORT item that I hoped would make him laugh --if only for a second. (I was ripped apart on his site once because I said "stop with the political BS" and other posters went ballistic). Most of his original readers felt the same...which is why such offence was taken to saying we were using him. We may have relied on him for information BUT were not using him for a political talking point...I am not coming down on you at all-- I am just saying track back the political comments on his site (Google cache) and I would bet it was No one here.
It may have been a bad start, but it's always nice to have people jump in.

Bigandmean said...

Jericho,

I don't doubt that you can't get a job. I don't doubt it at all.

Jericho Brown said...

I assume bigandmean is being a sarcastic asshole. And this from someone who cites George Jones and Marc Anthony as some of his favorites. And I never said I couldn't find a job. Dickweed.

~Jen~ said...

What a classy thing to say.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Forseti's comments noted by F:
Mine, by C:

F: My God, can't any of you think past the moment and prepare for tommorrow? Fight when you must and do it well, wage peace as hard as you wage war and do it just as well.

C: What does that have to do with the price of eggs? We're not at peace yet.

F: I think it should be manditory, 2 years BEFORE you can go to college, so that somebody who knows what reality is can get your head on straight before you decide you want to go into advertising or hairdressing.

C: I disagree with coercive policies.

F: Everyone in this country should know how to properly handle a sidearm or rifle.

C: I'm actually rather glad that Michael Moore can't.

F: If we did do we would need a lot less police.

C: Here in MN we have had a new CCW in place for about two years. Crime has neither gone up nor down. The constitutionality of our State's laws has gone up though.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Jericho Brown,

J: Nobody has ANY right to call themselves punk rock if you're defending an administration like that. You're not punk rock at all. You're fucking punks.

C: Anyone who thinks he talks for all punk rockers everywhere, is himself not "punk rock". You think we're all supposed to be mindless clones slam-dancing to YOUR agenda? You want us all to CONFORM?

J: And stop using CB as your own personal figurehead. He's just a guy doing his job. He's the only punk rawk motherfucker on this blog.

C: When you start adhering to your own commands, I'll stop laughing at you.

Cigarette Smoking Man from the X-Files said...

Jericho,

J: I never said I couldn't find a job. Dickweed.

C: Brilliant flip-flop about the state of the economy. I am in awe.

Bigandmean said...

Jericho,

Help is on the way. Some unsolicited but well intentioned advice:

1. Try some anger management. Chill out punk rock dude!
2. Get naked, wrap a sheet around yourself and sit in a corner and go ummmmmmmmmm for an hour or so. Throw in some kumbayas.
3. Try to express yourself without use of such colorful language.
4. Practice saying "you want fries with that"?

Seriously, I kid a lot and don't mean to insult you. But goodness man, could you back off the dickweed stuff in a public forum?

attillathehunnybun said...

Hey Jerislow,

Bite me.

Ron Brynaert said...

"When the Pentagon was hit the first instinct of the Secretary of Defense was to roll up his sleeves and help carry people out of the rubble"

His first instinct should've been to do his job...and get on the line with Norad, Richard Clarke etc.

ALa said...

Then you would've written...Don Rumsfled -heartless coward makes calls while people die...
Please...